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Karle94
Post subject: Re: American WWI BattletubsPosted: April 30th, 2014, 6:46 pm
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The color is taken from Wikipedia, it`s the same as yours. Almost all Pacific based ships had Measure 21 in 1942 and 1943, it helped against air attacks proven at Coral Sea and Midway.
I dont know what the small items on the bow and the stern is, but they are there. They appear to have been removed by 1943-44 to make space for AA guns.
The platform amidships is indeed not a boat boom, but a small platform sticking out. It seems to stick between 50-70cm out of the deck.
I have no idea about the mod and mark of the firecontrol directors, I know that it`s the same as all the other standard battleships.
The large radar is the CXAM-1, and I have no idea what the smaller one is, it is there, proven by pictures.
The bow jackstaff and the aft one should probably be two pixels thick, but we usually dont do that. The reason for the aft one being only one pixels is because the ref image shows it to be like that.
As for the Mk.51, it would seem to be used in conjunction with the 3"/50.
As for the lines around the turrets, again I have no idea, but all of the WWI and post-WWI designs had them.
The reason for me not having the Kingfishers on the platforms is because you have not shown them like that on other drawings, I could move them on to the platforms if you think it should be so.

Several details on the 1942 Colorado by Princess Nala does not exist in the image you provided, wich is of the Colorado in february 1942, and she has boats in that image. She also didnt have gun shields on her 5"/25 at that time either. And according the the builders data, she had 4 76mm guns in 41 and 42, not 1.1 inch guns.


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Colombamike
Post subject: Re: American WWI BattletubsPosted: April 30th, 2014, 7:06 pm
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Novice
Post subject: Re: American WWI BattletubsPosted: April 30th, 2014, 7:14 pm
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Karle94 wrote:
...
Several details on the 1942 Colorado by Princess Nala does not exist in the image you provided, wich is of the Colorado in february 1942, and she has boats in that image. She also didnt have gun shields on her 5"/25 at that time either. And according the the builders data, she had 4 76mm guns in 41 and 42, not 1.1 inch guns.
Many USN ships had 3"/50 AA guns (or even 3"/23 guns) as "place holders" in place of the 1.1" AA guns (in term of place, I'm not sure if it was also a substitute in term of weight).

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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: American WWI BattletubsPosted: April 30th, 2014, 7:51 pm
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OK, again, the only thing I will advise is that you slow down, take your time, and clearly research and document everything you can about the ship before you just hurriedly trace it... I compiled (and am still compiling) pages of notes on the refits and equipment on the Alaskas and North Carolinas...

I will try to address each point individually.
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The color is taken from Wikipedia, it`s the same as yours.
If you're referring the Navy Blue (5-N), then I agree and that looks fine. I was wondering about the anti-fouling red used on the drawing as it's darker than the rather arbitrary color I invented last fall for some AU drawings. If you have the official color (taken from Wikipedia or Snyder & Short) then I would love to use it myself.
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I dont know what the small items on the bow and the stern is, but they are there. They appear to have been removed by 1943-44 to make space for AA guns.
OK, well that's a problem as you should know what every single thing is that you're drawing. Creating details and inventing small items for the sake of filling space is the cardinal sin of this website in my book.

From first glance at the large lineart Colombamike linked, looks to me like the large thing directly ahead of the main battery is a mushroom vent. The two smaller things are probably vents too but I can't be sure. This is where you need to find the Booklet of General Plans and reference that. Check here: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/index.htm

HNSA has the faired lines for the Colorado (not particularly useful for elevation views), and the Booklet of General Plans for the West Virginia (a sister ship). Page 6 of the West Virginia PDF will show a plan view of the bow. Go read through it and figure out what those things are.
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The platform amidships is indeed not a boat boom, but a small platform sticking out. It seems to stick between 50-70cm out of the deck.
I don't agree with you as the West Virginia's plans specifically label it as a boat boom, and I've never seen any such platform on any of the USN ships.
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I have no idea about the mod and mark of the firecontrol directors, I know that it`s the same as all the other standard battleships.
And I suppose it's completely beyond the pale for you to consider doing some actual research and figuring out what it is, so you can then draw a very accurate version of it that the rest of us can use and refer to when we draw other USN ships?
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The large radar is the CXAM-1, and I have no idea what the smaller one is, it is there, proven by pictures.
It's not a question of whether or not I believe that radar is there. It's a question of whether or not you did enough research to actually learn what that radar is, why it's there, when it was added, and what function it performs. That's a Mark 3 Mod 2 fire control radar, added to the roof of the spotting top to provide radar direction capabilities for the main battery. Refer to the HNSA Catalog of Electronic Equipment here: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/ecat/index.htm and here: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/ecat/cat-0719.htm for more information.
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The bow jackstaff and the aft one should probably be two pixels thick, but we usually dont do that. The reason for the aft one being only one pixels is because the ref image shows it to be like that.
This is where you get to make a decision. Since we can't have things that are two pixels thick, you have to decide what will best portray it... it's a compromise. I choose one pixel because using three just looks too thick. But the most important lesson for you to learn here is to be consistent.
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As for the Mk.51, it would seem to be used in conjunction with the 3"/50.
Proof and evidence of this would be great as I have only heard of the Mk.51 system being used with the 40mm Bofors and 5"/38 guns. I'm sure it was possible but would like confirmation.
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As for the lines around the turrets, again I have no idea, but all of the WWI and post-WWI designs had them.
I'm fairly sure they are pipe rails that allow the crew to access the front of the barbette and turret without using a ladder.
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The reason for me not having the Kingfishers on the platforms is because you have not shown them like that on other drawings, I could move them on to the platforms if you think it should be so.
Ah so this is my fault. Excellent. I'd recommend that you study some photos of the catapult arrangements and fix the setup yourself. ;)

Again, hate to tear you down, but come on. You're tracing some of the most complex ships in the US Navy and calling it good. Personally I wouldn't approve these for upload until the issues are fixed...

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Colombamike
Post subject: Re: American WWI BattletubsPosted: April 30th, 2014, 7:57 pm
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Novice wrote:
Karle94 wrote:
And according the the builders data, she had 4 76mm guns in 41 and 42, not 1.1 inch guns.
Many USN ships had 3"/50 AA guns (or even 3"/23 guns) as "place holders" in place of the 1.1" AA guns (in term of place, I'm not sure if it was also a substitute in term of weight).
YES & NO !!!, NO & YES !!!
In December 1941/January 1942, it depends on ships
At Pearl-Harbor, 07 december 1941 :ugeek:
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By February 1942, the quadruple 28mm AA guns is "spreading" on LARGE ships (usually 4 mounts per capital-ships, except the older Texas & Arkansas BB's, who themselves hold the 76mm)
(mainly because the 76mm is a too slow rate of fire (15/20 rounds per minute max for the 76mm/AA guns VS 100/150 rounds per minute for the 28mm gun) to compare with a heavy MG design)


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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: American WWI BattletubsPosted: April 30th, 2014, 8:02 pm
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Karle -

I apologize for what must sound like a really rude and arrogant reply above, but I think it needs to be said. I'm glad that you are wanting to draw the USN ships but please realize that the standard for real designs (across the board, not just the USN) is now very high and I want to make sure you are not doing needless work by constantly posting/redrawing/posting/redrawing as errors are pointed out. My own experience after having to redraw several things made me want to just do it right the first time. That includes becoming an expert on all the parts and radars and guns involved... not just the ship itself.

Thanks for taking the criticism as well as you have.

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Karle94
Post subject: Re: American WWI BattletubsPosted: April 30th, 2014, 8:13 pm
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According to images the Kingfishers were not placed on the platform, so I am keeping it as it is now. The red color is taken from here: http://www.art-paints.com/Paints/Airbru ... arine.html it looks very similar, if not idential to the red paint you can see on modern USN ships. As for the director, it does not say anywhere what kind of director, only that it was the old type. And Colo, no need to apologize, I know how much you want perfection, especially on WWII American ships. But not everything is mentioned, like where is the vents, where are some of the smaller and less important things. Has the 1.1 inch gun even been drawn in SB scale yet?


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Colombamike
Post subject: Re: American WWI BattletubsPosted: April 30th, 2014, 8:26 pm
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Karle94 wrote:
Has the 1.1 inch gun even been drawn in SB scale yet?
The lastest one on SB ?
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Colombamike
Post subject: Re: American WWI BattletubsPosted: April 30th, 2014, 8:45 pm
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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: American WWI BattletubsPosted: May 1st, 2014, 1:58 am
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Ugh, whatever about the stupid color, I'm embarassed to be from that state now anyway.


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