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acelanceloet
Post subject: Scheme 59 Missile ships: Super Talos and SCANFARPosted: May 6th, 2018, 3:15 pm
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April 1959, BuShips send an short report to the CNO, with as subject 'Feasibility studies for Guided Missile ships utilizing SUPER-TALOS and SUPER-TARTAR systems. This report was an study on the requirements of the missile and radar installations then under development on the new line of warships that should be build in the near future. Therefore, the report included one DDG, one DLG and one CG design, each utilising the most advanced fire control system for its particular missile system and the most effective arrangement of the missile-radar combination. The report also mentions the use of interim installations on these same hull, if ships should be build which could due to development delays or other time schedule developments required so.

DDG
The DDG design illustrated below had an displacement of 7250 tons and could sail with an sustained speed of 31,5 knots. At 20 knots, the range would be 8000 miles. The fire control radar would be 4 advanced dish type radars, each of which was capable of controlling 2 missiles simultaneously against a single target. The search radar would be an combination of the SPS-13 and the SPS-26. She would have two Mk 13 launchers for an total of 80 Super Tartar missiles. In addition, the ship would carry 8 ASROC in an Mk 16 ASROC launcher, an Mk 42 gun guided by an Mk 68 GFCS‎‎ ,2 sets of tripple Mk 32 SVTT Torpedo tubes, 18 Mk 44 torpedoes and 3 Drone ASW helicopters. The approximate cost would be $93 Million for the lead ship and $77 Million for the following ships.
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The top speed of 31,5 knots was half a knot lower then that of the CG and DLG designs, as for an 32 knots sustained top speed the size and power of the ship would rise to nearly that of the DLG. Considering the armament, this does not appear warranted. Alternatively, the 32 knot speed in the DDG can be attained by reducing the endurance to about 7200 miles.

In the event interim installations would become necessary, the same hull could also use an different arrangement. This would use only 2 Advanced Dish type radars for fire control, and 1 Mk 13 launcher for an total of 40 Super Tartar missiles. The other armament would be the same as the base ship. The lead ship would cost $78 Million and following ships would cost $62 Million. It should be noted that this interim installation does not exploit the full capability of the ships.
[ img ]


DLG
The DLG design illustrated below had an displacement of 11400 tons and could sail with an sustained speed of 32 knots. At 20 knots, the range would be 8000 miles. The fire control radar would be an new phased array type, and the search radar would be the SPS-32/33 combination. She would have two Mk 10 launchers on board for a total of 80 Super Talos missiles and four Mk 13 launchers on board for a total of 160 Super Tartar missiles. In addition, the ship would carry 8 ASROC in an Mk 16 ASROC launcher, 2 sets of tripple Mk 32 SVTT Torpedo tubes, 18 Mk 44 torpedoes and 3 Drone ASW helicopters. The approximate cost would be $151 Million for the lead ship and $130 Million for the following ships.
[ img ]
In the event interim installations would become necessary, the same hull could also use an different arrangement. This would use 6 Advanced Dish type radars for fire control, use one Mk 10 launchers with 80 Super Talos missiles and 2 Mk 13 launchers for an total of 80 Super Tartar missiles. The other armament would be the same as the base ship. The lead ship would cost $145 Million and following ships would cost $124 Million.
[ img ]

CG
The CG design illustrated below had an displacement of 15900 tons and could sail with an sustained speed of 32 knots. At 20 knots, the range would be 8000 miles. The fire control radar would be an new phased array type, and the search radar would be the SPS-32/33 combination. She would have two Mk 10 launchers on board for a total of 120 (80+40) Super Talos missiles and four Mk 13 launchers on board for a total of 160 Super Tartar missiles. In addition, the ship would carry 8 ASROC in an Mk 16 ASROC launcher, 2 sets of tripple Mk 32 SVTT Torpedo tubes, 18 Mk 44 torpedoes and 2 Manned helicopters. The approximate cost would be $206 Million for the lead ship and $184 Million for the following ships.
[ img ]
In the event interim installations would become necessary, the same hull could also use two different arrangements. The first would use 4 Advanced Dish type radars for fire control, use only two Mk 10 launchers with 120 (80+ 40) Super Talos missiles, so no MR missiles or Polaris. The other armament would be the same as the base ship. The lead ship would cost $163 Million and following ships would cost $141 Million. It should be noted that this interim installation does not exploit the full capability of the ships.
[ img ]
The second would use 8 Advanced Dish type radars for fire control, use two Mk 10 launchers with 120 (80+ 40) Super Talos missilesand 2 Mk 13 launchers for an total of 80 Super Tartar missiles. The other armament would be the same as the base ship. The lead ship would cost $211 Million and following ships would cost $189 Million.
[ img ]

Notes by the author:
- The arrangement of the DLG interim installation ship is completely based on the 'full' design and the numerical specifications given in the original report. Errors are mine and should be pointed out, I will gladly modify them to make these ships more realistic.
- The 'Advanced Dish type FC radar' was never developed, unless we count the SPG-62 used in the AEGIS system as such. I have decided to create an slightly larger, more capable and powerful version of the SPG-51 to represent this development.
- On the DLG, no arrangement I could think of could use an 80 missile magazine on an Mk 10 without completely rearranging the hull spaces as I can imagine them from the 'full' design. To make drawing the interim design possible I thus 'created' an Mk 10 system with 2 40 missile magazines in line, so all could go in the aft deckhouse and the hull space above the turbine rooms there. The amidships superstructures are expanded to compensate for this loss of volume there.
- I used SPW-2's as radio link director antenna's for the Super Talos and Super Tartar system on the interim designs. I installed the same number of them as I installed directors.
- I did think off one other DLG interim arrangement that would require far less modification of the design, which would fit 4 directors on top of the SCANFAR superstructure and 2 on the aft superstructure. The requirement to remove one Mk 10 GMLS then no longer made any sense though, and the SCANFAR structure turned out to be quite cramped, so I decided not to use that arrangement.

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Last edited by acelanceloet on October 13th, 2018, 1:23 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Scheme 59 Missile ships: Super Talos and SCANFARPosted: May 6th, 2018, 3:32 pm
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Magnificent! I've thought about trying to draw these many times over the years, but I never took the plunge.


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Scheme 59 Missile ships: Super Talos and SCANFARPosted: May 6th, 2018, 4:12 pm
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Never come across these before. Wow, 240 SAMs! Some ambitious thinking was going on back in 1959.

Nice drawings of an interesting concept and I think you've translated the never-were into pictorial reality quite well.

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Ro-Po Max
Post subject: Re: Scheme 59 Missile ships: Super Talos and SCANFARPosted: May 6th, 2018, 4:35 pm
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But the work is gorgeous! :!:

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Scheme 59 Missile ships: Super Talos and SCANFARPosted: May 6th, 2018, 4:55 pm
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nice work. It's perhaps a bit weak armed :lol:


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MihoshiK
Post subject: Re: Scheme 59 Missile ships: Super Talos and SCANFARPosted: May 6th, 2018, 8:37 pm
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Someone was feeling... Inadequate, when they wrote up those proposals.

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Scheme 59 Missile ships: Super Talos and SCANFARPosted: May 6th, 2018, 11:00 pm
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MihoshiK wrote: *
Someone was feeling... Inadequate, when they wrote up those proposals.
when you park one of you'r destroyer next to a Kirov...


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Scheme 59 Missile ships: Super Talos and SCANFARPosted: May 7th, 2018, 3:01 am
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Nice to see proposals from that era.

And a Gurodyne better than mine, please add it to US Parts Sheets.


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Scheme 59 Missile ships: Super Talos and SCANFARPosted: May 9th, 2018, 7:19 pm
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Great drawings of a very interesting design.
In combat these 240 missiles surely should be enough for few minutes. ;)

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Graham1973
Post subject: Re: Scheme 59 Missile ships: Super Talos and SCANFARPosted: May 27th, 2018, 9:56 pm
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Interesting design. Am I right in guessing that was one of the preliminaries for the USS Long Beach (CGN-9)?


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