Shipbucket

Hi everyone,

I have been digging around a bit in unbuilt late Soviet designs for reasons I will develop later on, and I decided to try my hand at the weird-looking contraption known as Project 10210 Bizon.
Some of you will probably remember the Bora missile corvette, which was the first Soviet/Russian class to use a cavity-foil design, combining a catamaran hull with sharp sponsons and turbines to create lift in the space between the hull, the sponsons and the water surface. This concept is also used on the Norwegian Skjold class.
Before the Bora class turned out to be an engineering nightmare and further development was cut short by the fall of the Soviet Union anyway, the Soviet Navy had plans to scale up this design to grant 50-knot speed to ever larger ships. After completion of the Bora, phase 2 would have been the Project 10230 Tur light frigate, and phase 3 the Project 10210 Bizon.
This ship was a designated as a large anti-submarine ship, in the same category as e.g. the Project 1134A/B Berkut/Kara, i.e. large warships capable of ensuring anti-air and ASW coverage of friendly forces on a large surface.
To the best of my knowledge, only a model of this ship has been made public:

Though the detailed configuration has varied over time, I have taken this model as main reference. This version was supposed to displace between 5000 and 6500t for a length of 133m, and carry a full battery of Fort (SA-N-6) long-range SAMs and RPK-6 Vodopad ASW missiles in dedicated launchers. The ASW suite was to be complemented by at least 2 Ka-27 Helix helicopters launched from the two side-by-side pads made possible by he extra-wide catamaran hull.


Notes:
- Due to a paucity of sources, the overall amount of detail is low. I have decided to keep the guesswork at a minimum so far.
- One major WAG area is the visible part of the propulsion, as well as the exact content of the sensor suite. In order to keep the guesswork, again, at a minimum, I have voluntarily omitted necessary systems not visible in the design, such as missile-guidance radars.
- Proportions are based on the distinctly low-res drawing in A.N. Sokolov's "Alternative" book on unbuilt Soviet designs.
- In order to fill out this huge slab of hull, I have pushed the shading in some areas, possibly too far. Feedback is appreciated.

I think you should actually keep shading to a minimum. while you then indeed get huge slabs of hull, this is exactly what this ships shape is. adding shading to show shapes not there is not how that would be solved, IMO.

one thing I immidiately noticed. the large circular parts on the foredeck, are you certain those are missile launchers? I am asking because an VLS of such dimensions seems to be weird to be put amidships, between the 2 hulls. would they not be lift fans or something like that?

other then that....
- the funnels on the model look horizontally topped to me, not diagonal.
- the rudder aft seems very small, did you have good references for that?
- do your have references for the shape of the knuckles below the waterline? I somewhat doubt they would continue all the way to the keel, and if they do I doubt they would end with an angle compared to it. I expect them to be following the shape.
- the ASW launchers forward look different on the model and on your drawing?
- the model has a green underwater hull, why red on yours?

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

YES

I have a little bit of documentation on this beastie in my personal library (looks like no more than you), but I never felt up to the challenge of attempting to draw it.

Fabulous!

Great work!

The gun should be A-190 tought if you look at the model, not Ak-100. Also I'm bit sceptical about the Vodopad launchers, those which we see in the model can also be for Kh-35 or Medvedka (tough I personally suspect its the first). Vodopad could be launched in similar ways as in the pr.10230 Tur, from fixed torpedotube launchers ála Project 1154.

_________________
Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"

Nice work, especially since you only have a model to work from.

I think there might be a slight angle to the funnel tops, a few degrees at most.
The rudder looks small on the model but I think it might extended further towards the waterline.
I'm not sure what the ASW weapons are near the bows, they look like twin-arm launchers rather than RBU-series.
I think the angled launchers are definitely for Kh-35.
Probably the little oblong panel in the lower hull is some kind of fixed torpedo position for Vodopad and torpedoes.

Overall though a good drawing of a somewhat crazy idea. A lot of oddities came out around that time, Udaloy-based minesweepers and icebreaker frigates etc. One thing for sure, the Soviets were never afraid to experiment.

_________________
Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

A ship only its designer could love

_________________
“Close” only counts with horseshoes, hand grenades, and tactical nuclear weapons.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error

Worklist

Source Materiel is always welcome.

Thanks everyone for the positive feedback and the comments!

Before I address these specifically, I realize that a few general clarifications are in order:
1) My mentioning only the mockup picture above and off-handedly Sokolov's line drawing was a bit misleading. I actually drew a lot of assumptions in terms of shape and weapons fit from the drawing and A.N. Karpenko's write-up on the class, which you can find here. I had written down the address as source but managed to bungle it up completely in my post...
2) As I noted initially, this drawing of mine is meant to represent the initial proposal as modeled, with hair, warts and all. Some of the weaponry don't look like anything known or don't fit the hull? Too bad, not my decision. The only adjustment was in selecting the most sourced/relevant system for that time period in case one was available and the model did not show anything recognizable. I will probably try to patch it up into something workable in the future, but it won't really be never-built anymore, will it?

OK, now for the specific points (grouped by topic when relevant):
Good point. Agreed that the shading doesn't look right as is. I reduced the shading significantly and removed the bow plate lines which don't show up in the model.
Yep, I fit-checked the S-300F and just the missile eats up half the height to the waterline... See my comment above about not changing the design from the original, and Sokolov's drawing identifying them as Fort VLS as seen on the Pr.1164 Slava.
The role as BPK, era of design and that ridiculous planar array compel me to keep a significant long-range AA set, and there's nothing else in the model that fits with that.
Re. lift fans, no other hover-cat design I have seen features direct-intake lift fans, but rather a flush intake trunk without relation to the shape of the turbines. See behind the main mast of the Bora for example. To take another one, the lift fans on the Skjold are even mounted horizontally with a tangent exhaust. On this design, I have taken the assumption that the whole propulsion/lift plant is grouped astern and that the intake for the fans is behind some of the multitudinous grids on the machinery deck.
The shape was taken from Sokolov's drawing more than the model, where the perspective makes it hard to figure out the angles. Touched up to a lower angle.
1) That's not a rudder, and 2) you have seen the extent of my references on that topic in the OP
If you look closely at that part of the model, you will see what looks like a ducted prop. This possibly swivels or (more likely) includes a built-in rudder behind the blades. Or it looks like nothing concrete because it's just a preliminary model, who knows?
I have enlarged the ducts a bit so that they make more sense to push a ship that big.
Good point, I guess I got carried over following the curve.
The knuckle lines have been flattened and cut half-way to the bottom of the sponsons.
Again, preliminary model. Granted, the RBUs look like they have only two tubes or rail launchers, but they are too small for RPK-1 launchers and that would make zero sense at that time anyway. Sokolov is noncommittal but Karpenko says RBU-12000, and this is the most period-relevant for the role, so RBU-12000 it is.
Force of habit, and best available SB palette. Fixed, it enhances the Black Sea Fleet look IMO anyway.
Again, see Karpenko's write-up, and keep in mind that the model is a preliminary small-scale job from the 80s. The A190 was not around, and I doubt that the turret shape was meant to be that specific. For comparison, tell me if the CIWS abaft the turret look like anything known. I went along with the AK-100 since it was the contemporary weapon for such ships (see Pr.1154, 1155 et.al.).
Granted, if development had gone along, the lead ship would probably have entered service late enough that an A-190 could have been fitted but that's another story.
OK, this part gets tricky. I know I have been harping on the necessary deviation from the model to add credible weapons and sensors, but in this case I feel that this version is the only one that sticks to the operational concept.
Let's lay down the line of thought I've gone with so far:
- This ship has an anti-submarine mission and a high displacement
- Though fast, it carries helicopters and therefore needs long-range weapons
- Karpenko mentions 2x4 Vodopad launchers
- No other ASM/AShM weapons of similar volume are mentioned anywhere
- No other probable emplacement for Vodopad launchers is clearly visible on either the model or Sokolov's drawing
- Other above-deck Vodopad launchers have featured extensively in contemporary unbuilt designs such as the Pr.11990 Anchar and the Pr.1156(0), though they do not appear angled and could work as torpedo tubes
- If such a project had gone forward, a specific deck launcher for the Vodopad might have been developed along these lines
Re. these tubes being Uran, they look too big and too close to horizontal for Urans, even though the KT-184 probably didn't exist when the model was built. Given the size, they could be notional quad-packs for Oniks, but again, BPK, so ASuW weapons are not a priority.
Re. another possible position for Vodopad launchers, see below.
I'm far from certain that the width of the sponsons would allow for something bigger than a Paket in that configuration. How this would have worked on the Tur is a good question. I keep this point in mind for later, but so far I only changed the above-deck Vodopad launchers to a trainable torpedo-like horizontal launcher.

Here is the new version:


Note: I have added credit to Gollevainen, which was planned from the start but that'll teach me to rush and post drawings at that hour of night without double-checking... Behind the huge slabs of hull, this is mostly a shameless kitbash of Golly's latest Pr.1134B and a few others after all.

Well A-190 was developted during the soviet times and was intended for several of the late era designs which most remained just papermodels. The gun in the model clearly tries to represent the A-190 and that is consistent with the other system fit onboard the model which indicates that the model is dating to the time when A-190 is already beign developted. Shape and size and the exact details of AK-100 were well known the time when the model was made so thus its bit weird that they didn't make it look like it if the AK-100 indeed was intended for the ship. There is indeed clear conflict between the data given by Karpenko and the model regarding the gun but that is very common proplem with these soviet never-where designs. The ammount of information is often very limited and contradicting and there can be models, drawings and literate date which all conflicts each others. One reason for this is that the sources, images or written text may show the designs from different phases of development and thus explain the different system fit. Don't worry, I've been banging my head to these issues for good part of 10 years now...

As for the CIWS, they try to show Kortik system, there is about half a dozen different "modelist impressions" of the Kortik from Soviet models dating before the introduction of the system. Some of those are rather peculiar looking and do not remind the actual system at all. That is common pattern towards many other systems. The people who did the models might not have been given the exact details of the new systems so they have to do whole lotta guessing and imagination. However from what I've been researching these soviet never-wheres, I've come to conclusion that the peculiar systems which do not correspond to any known weapon system, real or planned are similar type of these "modelist impressions" rahter than some new unknown weapon systems.

The Vodopad-issue is bit more difficoult as there indeed is several mentions of the system beign introduced in wider spread to surface ships beyond the existing torpedo-tube launch. The quad tubelauncer is seen in some late soviet design models but it might also be the Medvedka launcher which was beign developted at the same time. Personally I belive that for example in the Project 11990 models in the central naval museum have the Medvedka launchers instead of the Vodopad torbedo launchers. However the vodopad beign fired from seperate launchers is mentioned in several sources so it might be either way. However I'm pretty sure that the launchers in the model are Kh-35 launchers given their size and shape.

Anyways as we can see in the mids of contradicting evidence and source data, we just have to rely on our own judgement and like it is with all these never-where designs done here in the Shipbucket, they are really just artist impressions most of the time. So thus this is your impression and you in the end have to make the call of how you present the drawing.

_________________
Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"

Thanks for the info! I'll have learned something today and will correct my WIP designs accordingly.

Here is the current version with A-190 and above-deck Vodopad.
I hear ya
I haven't been spending 10 years on this specific topic (yet...) but I understand the feeling, believe me.
In this case, Sokolov states outright that the configuration was subject to change and doesn't give any more details for this ship.
As long as the design evolves in fixed increments, even without being built, it is possible to represent the planned ship at different points in time. That is, of course, if there are detailed sources on the progression of the design...
Just a few remarks on the Medvedka: granted, it was in development at the time, but I wonder if it wasn't considered short-ranged for BPKs? I have seen it only on MPKs and frigates (secondary ASW mission) so far. Anyway, in the drawings of all the projects mentioned, including this one, the tubes shown are much larger than the RPK-9 launcher. The slanted version I made for this one is based on the standard 533mm torpedo tube in your parts sheet, and it barely fits the Vodopad missile already. In turn, the tubes shown in the drawings are barely shorter than this in most cases. Actually, the Bizon is the most ambiguous case of this mystery quad-pack, where the length falls right smack in the middle between Vodopad and Medvedka.
Anyway. After thinking over the feasibility of trainable or built-in off-course Vodopad launchers in the sponsons, I have made this separate, parallel version with in-hull Vodopad and above-deck Uran. It makes some sense to have Urans for self-defense anyways. You can decide which version makes the most sense.

_________________
Soviet Century/Cold War 2020 Alternate Universe: Soviet and other Cold War designs 1990-2020.
My Worklist

The idea of Medvedka was that it would be compact and to be able to be fitted on all sizes of warships. The earlier Metel/Rastrub were too large to be fitted anything smaller than the Project 1135 Krivak class. Its true that Medvedka was only ever fitted on the small antisubmarine ship/boat pr.1141 design but it was intended to be fitted to larger vessels as well. Vodopad in the otherhand was originally designed for submarines and thus the launching rahter odd method were the missile was fired from torpedotubes to water in the way of normal torpedo were the missile ignited under water. It was only later adopted to surface ships. The Kalibr missile-system which is beign introduced now features VLS ASW missile developted by Novator and are most likely derivation or evolution of the Vodopad into true surface ship variant with vertical launching method.

_________________
Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"