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American Never-Built Cruisers
http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9742		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  dalamace [ December 3rd, 2019, 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  American Never-Built Cruisers
Hello everyone,

Today, I present an American heavy cruiser, the S-511-6 CA-2D, both of which are tentatively depicted in 1944, around the same time where the USS Alaska would be commissioned and from whom I have most of my inspirations from. The CA-2D was one of the heavy cruisers proposal that would lead to the Alaska-Class Large Cruisers and the CA-2D was the largest of the proposals, notably sporting 12 guns in four triple turrets and having its aviation facility on the fantail.

The first drawing follows the plan as best as I can, looking more like a conventional heavy cruiser than the actual Alaska-Class, lacking the battleship mast.

[ img ]

This drawing have a battleship mast, modelled on the ones fitted onto the Iowa but with some inspirations from the Alaska.

[ img ]

If there's any mistake please do tell! Pardon about the camouflage.

Thank You!
Author:  emperor_andreas [ December 3rd, 2019, 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American Never-Built Cruisers
Very nice work! You can see elements of both the Alaskas and the Iowas in the designs.
Author:  Karle94 [ December 4th, 2019, 4:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: American Never-Built Cruisers
The CA2-D design was basically a mini Iowa, not a whole lot of emphasize in "mini" as the design was 263 meters long. Had this design been chosen, there would not be a question on whether the Alaskas were large cruisers of battlecruisers.

I suspect you may already have used it, but I'll link it anyway as it might help. http://www.shipscribe.com/styles/S-511/ ... 11-06c.htm
Author:  erik_t [ December 4th, 2019, 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American Never-Built Cruisers
I think the real trick in a never-built design is to fill in representative details whose disposition may not be precisely known, but can be judged necessary. An obvious example would be wire bracing for a pole mast: we don't know exactly where it would be located (probably the designer didn't worry about it at this stage of the design), but we know it would be somewhere. I think that additional attention would really elevate the quality of these drawings, which are competent but somewhat sparse.

I admit that it's a question of personal preference to what extent it's appropriate to fill in these sorts of details.

One particular note about the tower-mast variant: the viewing slits high on the tower seem unlikely in layout: they suggest only a 5' (!) deck height between them.
Author:  Colosseum [ December 4th, 2019, 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American Never-Built Cruisers
Nice to see the CA-2D in our scale.

I agree w erik on some of the points above - rigging needs to be revisited especially. USN ships of this period typically have three different types of rigging that's visible in drawings: halyards for running signal flags/ensigns, stay lines for anchoring pole masts, and antenna wiring strung between the masts. Make sure you know what every line of rigging you are drawing is supposed to be. Look at my drawings of similar ships for examples.

The pole masts are also too thin to support the kind of weight of these radars. I see on the "battleship mast" version you've taken the upper part of the foremast from Alaska, which is fine, but its support below is questionable at best. The pole masts should be 4px wide (1 black 2 grey 1 black).

Are the windows on the open bridge meant to be an enclosed pilot house with glazing, or are they plexiglas windscreens? If they're windscreens they are too large - and if you're trying to show an Iowa-style enclosed pilot house, there should be roof structure visible above it.

The bow shading should (IMO) be more a smoother curve and the colors seem too dark (but nice job on this either way)

The rudder should be squared off and not rounded as you have shown. These strange round rudders that seem to have infected recent SB artists are baffling to me...

Erik is right that the surface lookout viewing slits on the tower seem wrong - I'd look at the placement of these on the alaska drawing to ensure they make sense: http://www.shipbucket.com/drawings/1/file

BTW, it looks like you've cut and pasted components from my old Alaska drawing vs. the new one which is much more detailed.
Author:  dalamace [ December 4th, 2019, 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American Never-Built Cruisers
Hello, everyone, thanks for the feedbacks! I agree that I struggle a lot with clutters and these little details on the ship. I have drawn more rigging on the masts, more halyards and more support lines. If there is now too many halyards and not enough stay lines, I can certainly redo it. The pole masts are thicken for both masts. The open bridge have plexiglas windscreens to which I decrease in size. The bow shading is made lighter.

As for the round rudders, it would seem that I have been reading the blueprints or intepreting it wrongly. I made more squarish shaped. The viewing slits are redone so the sailors aren't midgets but deck sizing is something I been flipflopping a lot. I also added a bit of details but not to a great extent.

At any rate, I've credit Ian B Roberts since although I think I did not copy and paste components, I might have subconciously draw them identically.

[ img ]

Once more, thanks for the feedback, and if you see any errors in my fix then please do point them out!

Thank You!
Author:  Colosseum [ December 4th, 2019, 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American Never-Built Cruisers
Nah, no need to credit me. This is entirely your work. ;)

Looking much better. Floatplanes? I would think during this period it would be the OS2U Kingfisher.
Author:  dalamace [ December 5th, 2019, 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American Never-Built Cruisers
Hello,

Here's my final iteration of the Super Alaska. This time with an OS2U Kingfisher.

[ img ]

And now, here's my drawing of an Atlanta-style dual-purpose 5" light cruiser weighing at 8100 tons. It is armed with multiple 5"/54 guns, one that is found in the USS Midway and the never-built USS Montana. I use the turret from the USS Montana and there are plans for a twin-version of the ones from the USS Midway. Curiously, it have a limited aviation facility consisting of a catapult and a crane.

[ img ]

The ship is largely based on the real USS Atlanta of course in 1944. I also try to beef up the mast to with riggings so it looks a tad better than before. The quad Bofors amidship might be too much however...

At any rate, thanks for all the feedback and please points out any errors!

Thank You!
Author:  MihoshiK [ December 10th, 2019, 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American Never-Built Cruisers
dalamace wrote: *December 5th, 2019, 8:25 pm
Hello,

Here's my final iteration of the Super Alaska. This time with an OS2U Kingfisher.

[ img ]

And now, here's my drawing of an Atlanta-style dual-purpose 5" light cruiser weighing at 8100 tons. It is armed with multiple 5"/54 guns, one that is found in the USS Midway and the never-built USS Montana. I use the turret from the USS Montana and there are plans for a twin-version of the ones from the USS Midway. Curiously, it have a limited aviation facility consisting of a catapult and a crane.

[ img ]

The ship is largely based on the real USS Atlanta of course in 1944. I also try to beef up the mast to with riggings so it looks a tad better than before. The quad Bofors amidship might be too much however...

At any rate, thanks for all the feedback and please points out any errors!

Thank You!
Ask Coloseum for a better version of that twin Montana 5" mount, I'm quite sure there is one, I just can't find it on the site right now.
Author:  BB1987 [ December 10th, 2019, 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American Never-Built Cruisers
[ img ]
Here it is.
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