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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: January 31st, 2016, 4:49 am
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Man almost two years since I last actually did something here, I should probably get back to finishing some of the other designs left abandoned in the time I was off focusing on videos. Assuming that is if anybody still wants to see this stuff. Much of it is old now after all.

Though in case I've overlooked it, has there been any style changes since 2014? I would assume there has.

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: January 31st, 2016, 3:18 pm
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I always liked this AU, Denodon. I'd sure like to see it keep going. Of course, it's important to remember that if you're not interested, then it's not a requirement to keep going.

As far as I know, there are no official style changes. I am going off of the same old style rules, but my drawings are much better than they were 2 years ago. There are several people who are exceptional pixel artists who have formulated their pixels in such a way that none of us can compete, but no. The style rules should be the same.

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apdsmith
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: January 31st, 2016, 4:20 pm
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Hi Denodon,

As Ethan, I always quite liked this one and, if you're willing, would be happy to see it resume.

The only changes I'm aware of are a change to the shading colour on the underwater hull - it's gone from a brown to a darker red - and better parts sheets that may have you wanting to re-do any ships you've got using old parts. I've been using the new KM parts sheets and they're good, you can see the improvements over the older sheets.

Regards,
Adam

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eswube
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: January 31st, 2016, 7:32 pm
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Nice to see Your AU being resumed. :)


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BB1987
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: January 31st, 2016, 8:40 pm
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I'm in for the ride too, I really like your light cruisers (escpecially), so I'd definitely want to see more from Sieran.

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Blackbuck
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: January 31st, 2016, 9:03 pm
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Good to see you back, will be good to see you on irc again too if you're around.

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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: January 31st, 2016, 10:38 pm
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Hey all,

Thanks for the responses! I'm looking back through my images to see what needs doing and I'm thinking I might want to try and do a parts sheet of some sort to collect both AU and imported weapons and hardware just to make things easier for myself.
I'm uncertain what I'll do with the actual fleet, in the time I've been away I've had a lot of thinking as to what the nation might actually be able to afford. I like a large fleet but that doesn't mean they could realistically operate one!

I've popped in the IRC now and then over the last year, though I should get in the habit of remembering to get on it more often.

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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: February 6th, 2016, 2:06 am
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G'day all,

I've for a while now been really curious about designing some sort of capital ship for Sieran. Obviously there's some limitations in what a small nation with limited population and economy could actually afford to construct.
A coastal defense ship would seem perfect however I also have a feeling that the naval officers would desire something more prideful.
As such I've made the following for an idea of a small coastal defense/dreadnought design based upon the Spanish Espana class (with likely identical main gun layout) with guns of the same caliber as the Swedish Sverige class to allow for a bit more armour and speed than the Spanish design. Also looked at the Nassau class for some inspiration.

Unnamed, Socialist Republic of Sieran Coastal Battleship laid down 1912

Displacement:
13,620 t light; 14,558 t standard; 16,277 t normal; 17,653 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(486.00 ft / 480.00 ft) x 83.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.73 ft)
(148.13 m / 146.30 m) x 25.30 m x (7.92 / 8.45 m)

Armament:
8 - 11.14" / 283 mm 45.0 cal guns - 697.45lbs / 316.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 x 2-gun mounts on sides amidships
20 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 53.17lbs / 24.12kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1912 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 6,643 lbs / 3,013 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 210.00 ft / 64.01 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
170.00 ft / 51.82 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 180.00 ft / 54.86 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 67 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
3.00" / 76 mm 180.00 ft / 54.86 m 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.00 ft / 22.86 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm - 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 25,283 shp / 18,861 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,095 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
719 - 936

Cost:
£1.204 million / $4.816 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,408 tons, 8.7 %
- Guns: 1,408 tons, 8.7 %
Armour: 5,106 tons, 31.4 %
- Belts: 2,063 tons, 12.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 420 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 1,368 tons, 8.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,131 tons, 7.0 %
- Conning Tower: 125 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,109 tons, 6.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,697 tons, 28.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,658 tons, 16.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,300 tons, 8.0 %
- Hull below water: 300 tons
- Hull above water: 250 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,912 lbs / 12,661 Kg = 40.4 x 11.1 " / 283 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.49

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.559
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -1.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 23.30 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 17.50 ft / 5.33 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 17.50 ft / 5.33 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Aft deck: 24.70 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarter deck: 22.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.42 ft / 5.31 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.2 %
Waterplane Area: 27,804 Square feet or 2,583 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 677 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.92
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Then an alternate version, reduced deck armour and misc weight in the hull to test the idea of having the turrets be superfiring instead of en echelon.

Unnamed, Socialist Republic of Sieran Coastal Battleship laid down 1912

Displacement:
13,620 t light; 14,558 t standard; 16,277 t normal; 17,653 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(486.00 ft / 480.00 ft) x 83.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.73 ft)
(148.13 m / 146.30 m) x 25.30 m x (7.92 / 8.45 m)

Armament:
8 - 11.14" / 283 mm 45.0 cal guns - 697.45lbs / 316.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
20 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 53.18lbs / 24.12kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1912 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 6,643 lbs / 3,013 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 210.00 ft / 64.01 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
170.00 ft / 51.82 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 180.00 ft / 54.86 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 67 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
3.00" / 76 mm 180.00 ft / 54.86 m 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.00 ft / 22.86 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm - 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 25,283 shp / 18,861 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,095 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
719 - 936

Cost:
£1.204 million / $4.816 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,408 tons, 8.7 %
- Guns: 1,408 tons, 8.7 %
Armour: 4,927 tons, 30.3 %
- Belts: 2,057 tons, 12.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 420 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 1,571 tons, 9.7 %
- Armour Deck: 754 tons, 4.6 %
- Conning Tower: 125 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,109 tons, 6.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,126 tons, 31.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,658 tons, 16.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,050 tons, 6.5 %
- Hull below water: 150 tons
- Hull above water: 250 tons
- On freeboard deck: 450 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,222 lbs / 12,348 Kg = 39.4 x 11.1 " / 283 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.559
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -1.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 23.30 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 17.50 ft / 5.33 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 17.50 ft / 5.33 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Aft deck: 24.70 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarter deck: 22.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.42 ft / 5.31 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.2 %
Waterplane Area: 27,804 Square feet or 2,583 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 150 lbs/sq ft or 730 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.99
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Any thoughts/comments/suggestions? She would seem surprisingly steady and stable which would be useful in the Bering and North Pacific. Casemates are of dubious use in such conditions but I'm unsure whether turreted secondaries would work/be too modern for a ship of the era.

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: February 6th, 2016, 3:07 am
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They both look fine to me.
As for your query on guns, I don't think turreted secondaries were commonplace, but you could always have open or shielded mounts for your 120mm guns. Also, casemates do not have to be in the hull, they can be above the hull in the superstructure, but I think shielded mounts would be better.

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I am not active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.


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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: February 6th, 2016, 3:27 am
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Yeah my main concern is more to do with the location of the secondaries vs the main guns.

Initially the idea for the main battery was to have them akin to the Espana class that I've heavily based this on;

[ img ]

The issue there is there's not really anywhere on the deck that you could place the secondaries that wouldn't put them in the blast radius of the main guns.

Alternatively I've been looking at the Minas Geraes class which whilst heavier and having more guns than me give two options;

[ img ]

I could either go with superfiring fore and aft, or keep them all deck level but have the side turrets positioned like in the Brazilian ship which, whilst not allowing for fire across the deck, would give more deck space for upgrades and potential placement of guns in the superstructure/turrets.

Not too sure what options could work. I do love the bidirectional look of the Espana that could work to deceive enemy spotters however it does extremely limit the upgrades the vessel could receive along with modernization.

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