Moderator: Community Manager
[Post Reply] [*]  Page 38 of 38  [ 378 posts ]  Go to page « 134 35 36 37 38
Author Message
RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: July 21st, 2017, 1:52 am
Offline
Posts: 429
Joined: January 12th, 2016, 8:57 pm
Location: Wilmington, North Carolina
More awesome work, keep it up!

_________________
Best regards,

RegiaMarina1939


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
RipSteakface
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 7:20 pm
Offline
Posts: 71
Joined: July 7th, 2017, 6:32 pm
They're truly beautiful! I can't wait to see what the Strana Sovetov and Sovetskaya Rossiya looked like during the war!


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: August 9th, 2020, 8:57 am
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 1059
Joined: December 26th, 2012, 9:36 am
Location: Germany
Hello again

A class of ships that has been ricocheting around the Thiariaverse for some time without adequate depiction: The Italian Esploratori of the Piemonte-Class

Ships in class (in order of completion)
Campania (CM) – OTO, Livorno – Laid down March 1937 – Launched April 1938 – Completed October 1939
Basilicata (BC) – OTO, Livorno – Laid down June 1937 – Launched June 1938 – Completed November 1939
Umbria (UA) – OTO, Livorno – Laid down June 1937 – Launched June 1938 – Completed December 1939
Liguria (LI) – CNR, Palermo – Laid down March 1937 – Launched October 1938 – Completed February 1940
Lombardia (LO) – OTO, Livorno – Laid down July 1937 – Launched August 1938 – Completed March 1940
Piemonte (PE) – CNR, Ancona – Laid down February 1937 – Launched December 1938 – Completed July 1940
Lazio (LZ) – CNR, Ancona – Laid down July 1937 – Launched January 1939 – Completed September 1940
Elba (EB) – OTO, Livorno – Laid down October 1937 – Launched December 1938 – Completed September 1940
Molise (ME) – OTO, Livorno – Laid down October 1937 – Launched December 1938 – Completed October 1940
Puglia (PU) – CT, Riva Trigoso – Laid down April 1937 - Launched November 1938 – Completed December 1940
Etruria (EU) – CT, Riva Trigoso – Laid down October 1937 – Launched May 1939 – Completed February 1941
Calabria (CB) – CNR, Palermo – Laid down November 1937 – Launched July 1939 – Completed April 1941

Displacement
2.950 ts standard / 3.450 ts full load

Length
129,3 m pp / 134,5 m cwl /139,5 m oa

Beam
13,7 m

Draught
4,1 m standard / 5,1 m deep load

Machinery
2-shaft geared Belluzzo turbines, 4 Yarrow boilers, 110.000 shp

Speed
40 knots designed; 35 knots max deep and dirty; 32 knots sustainable; best trial speed 44,4 knots at 129.447 shp (Campania)

Range
5.250 nm @ 20 knots

Complement: 275 (OTO vessels); 260 (others)

Armament:
OTO vessels (plus Liguria): 5x2 120mm L/50 OTO Modello 1936; 2x2 37mm L/54 Breda Modello 1938; 8x1 12,7mm HMG; 2x3 533mm torpedo tubes, 1 depth charge rack (12 charges); rails for 60 mines
Other vessels: 4x2 120mm L/50 Ansaldo Modello 1937; 4x2 37mm L/54 Breda Modello 1938; 8x1 12,7mm HMG; 2x3 533mm torpedo tubes, 1 depth charge rack (12 charges); rails for 60 mines

History
In the early 1930s, Italy’s most powerful destroyers were the twelve Navigatori-class units, which were reasonably well armed and very fast, but had severe stability issues. These could be remedied by widening their hulls and re-distributing weight, at the cost of reducing their design speed by ten knots (from 38 to 28 knots), rendering them useless for fleet work. This left Italy with no effective equivalent to France’s powerful contre-torpilleurs; to make things worse, the Brits started building the successful Tribal-class with twice the gunnery of Italy’s remaining fleet destroyer classes per hull, just when the Navigatori’s were under refit. Something needed to be done. Fortunately for Italy, the reopening of the Sirte oil fields in 1933 – they had been closed down during the Senusi rebellion, which was brutally put down in 1932 – provided the fascist state with direly needed hard currency, and therefore the means to pay for a substantial fleet building programme. Under the 1935 supplementary programme, two aircraft carriers and twelve very large destroyers were approved; they were initially labeled scouts (esploratori), but downrated to destroyers before the first of them was complete. The design process lasted mere days; OTO had sold the very big destroyer Tashkent to the Soviets in 1935, which was considered to be well adaptable to the RM’s needs, and it was adopted with minimal modifications.

The Italian version of Tashkent was slightly heavier than its Soviet pendant, in an attempt to provide some reserve stability for future upgrades. Externally, both designs were vitually identical, and they also had the same engine plant. At 110.000 shp, it was more powerful than the one installed in the contemporary Sicilia-class aircraft carriers; design speed of the new esploratori was fourty knots. Trial figures ranged from 44,4 knots (Campania) to 40,3 knots (Molise); the last six were not pushed to the limit on trials, as the war had already started. To provide firepower worthy of a ship of this size, eight 120mm guns in fully enclosed mounts with mechanical loading assistance were to be installed. With a sustainable ROF of 12 rpm per barrel, these mounts enabled the new esploratori to outgun the slower firing French contre-torpilleurs (except the Mogadors) and meet the Tribals on even terms (more than that if the engagement was prolonged, as the Tribal’s guns were manually loaded). No less than 400 rpg were provided, emphasizing how the Italians planned to rely on ROF over individual shell weight. Torpedoes were very much a secondary armament, and no more than the standard two triple tubes (with 8 reserve torpedoes) were provided. These big ships were the first Italian destroyers with 37mm AA guns; four heavy twin mounts were provided, grouped around the second funnel. Upon completion, eight HMGs were added for close defence. Fire control was provided by a main and a secondary director; for the 37mm guns, two small directors were mounted on the aft superstructure.

Being an OTO design, half the ships were contracted to OTO’s Livorno yard; the others were divided up between smaller yards (Cantieri Navali Riuniti in Ancona and Palermo, and Cantieri dell‘ Tirreno at Riva Trigoso). Due to their designed role as scouts, they received traditional cruiser names, being named after Italian provinces. All twelve were laid down during 1937; OTO built their share somewhat faster than the smaller yards. By 1939, it was evident that Ansaldo would not be able to deliver the new 120mm semi-automatic mounts prior to mid-1940. With war looming, OTO substituted traditional open 120mm twin destroyer mounts as main armament. As they were not only much less effective, but also much lighter, a fifth mount was added and the aft superstructure was cut down and moved astern to accomodate it. This required moving the secondary director abaft the funnel, and two of four 37mm twins had to be deleted. The same redesign was applied to one of the CNR-built ships.

Five of the class were completed before the war started; four of them had ten 120mm mounts oft he standard destroyer type: Campania, Basilicata, Umbria and Liguria.
[ img ]

The fifth – Lombardia – was fitted with a 37mm quad turret with integrated fire control instead of one of the 120mm twins. While the mount itself was successful, it was considered overly heavy and complicated to manufacture, and was only ever mounted on five RM ships.
[ img ]

The class ship Piemonte (laid down first, completed sixth) was the first ship which received the new semi-automatic 120mm mounts; she was delivered within days after Italy’s entry into the war.
[ img ]

The first three of the class were present at the Battle of Punta Stilo in July 1940. Campania torpedoed the British cruiser HMS Orion, but the torpedo was a dud; she also scored several gunnery hits on Orion and two British destroyers, escaping with minor damage. The other two, their crews still green, failed to achieve anything, but were not damaged either. All three were back in action at Cape Spada ten days later; they failed to prevent the loss of two light cruisers, but Campania and Basilicata shot up HMS Hyperion so badly she had to be scuttled. At Cape Spartivento in December, Campania, Basilicata, Liguria and Lombardia were present; Lombardia was very badly damaged and out of action for nearly a year.

By that time, all of the class save Etruria and Calabria were delivered. No less than six of them were present at Matapan. Together with the battleship Francesco Morosini, they saved the crippled cruiser Pola, at the cost of losing two of their own. Lazio managed to take Pola under tow while the British destroyed her sisters Zara and Fiume; to cover her, Francesco Morosini, escorted by Umbria and Piemonte, first sunk HMS Gloucester and then substantially damaged HMS Warspite. Meanwhile Campania, Basilicata and Liguria charged HMS Valiant with guns and torpedoes. They badly peppered her with a lot of 120mm rounds without causing substantial damage, but Valiant’s secondaries, aided by the cruisers Orion, Apollo and Phaeton, sunk Campania and Liguria and dealt very heavy damage to Basilicata, which only barely escaped. This is how Liguria looked on her final day; she had already swapped two of her 12,7mm HMG mounts with 20mm twins.
[ img ]

Shortly after Matapan, the Sicilia-class carriers became operational, and the Piemonte-class ships were assigned to escort them. During the first half of 1941, they all received four twin 20mm mounts. None of the class made contact with the enemy during the invasion of Crete, nor during the numerous convoy attack operations afterwards. Lombardia and Basilicata were under refit during most of the year; the former re-emerged in September 1941, just to be sunk by HM submarine Utmost during Operation Halberd, while the latter was re-commissioned in December after having been refit to an escort flagship. She had lost all her 120mm guns and received four twin 100mm mounts (removed from Zara and Fiume before the war) and a 37mm quad mount; four DC throwers and one of the first operational Gufo EC-2 radar systems installed on any Italian ship. Her bridge had been rebuilt to add splinter protection and an air defence platform atop the conning station; this bridge reconstruction served as a model for all ships of the class as they came in for refit during the following year.
[ img ]

During the Battle of Sirte in December 1941, Lazio, Piemonte and Umbria literally saved the carrier Sardegna, which had maneuvered itself into the way of light Commonwealth surface forces; Piemonte sank a British destroyer with gunfire, Lazio damaged one, and Umbria torpedoed a Recherchean light cruiser, driving the commonwealth forces off. Nevertheless, the other carrier was torpedoed by a British submarine, freeing her escorts for more forward duties while she was under repair; Lazio also took some damage. Elba, Molise and Calabria accompanied the freshly repaired cruiser Pola to the second Battle of Sirte in March 1942. They caught the British convoy while another, larger Italian squadron pinned the British escort force, and sank four merchantmen with crucial supplies for Malta. Molise hit a mine on the return leg and had to be towed in for repairs. After the carrier Sicilia re-joined the fleet, all six operational Piemontes (except Basilicata, which served in her intended role as escort flagship) accompanied the carriers during intercept missions against allied Spitfire delivery runs to Malta in April 1942 and the scattering of Convoys Harpoon and Vigorous in June. During the destruction of convoy Pedestal in August, Puglia, Piemonte and Umbria covered the carriers, while Elba, Calabria and Etruria were with the battleship Francesco Morosini. They were involved in heavy fighting, and a torpedo from Etruria stopped the cruiser HMS Amphion to be finished off by Pola and Bolzano, while Calabria sank HMS Ithuriel with gunfire. This battle sealed Malta’s fate, and the Axis invaded in September. After the loss of Malta and the subsequent Axis victory at El Alamein, a nationalist Arab uprise rocked Egypt, and Italian naval forces were deployed to assist the siege of Alexandria. Elba struck three mines during these operations in December and broke in half; on the other hand, Umbria and Piemonte sank the British AA cruiser HMS Curacoa during a sweep towards Beirut on Christmas Eve. By year’s end, all ships of the class had landed the useless 12,7mm HMGs and embarked a total of eight 20mm twin mounts; all but Umbria and Calabria also had received sonar.
[ img ]

During early 1943, the Piemontes were back escorting the carrier force during operations against the allied advance through Algeria and supporting the Axis counteroffensive which reached Alger in August. During these operations, Puglia and Calabria were detached to intercept a British coastal convoy headed for Bizerte; Puglia was torpedoed by HMS Matchless and finished off by aircraft from HMS Furious. Radar was added on all units of the class till mid-1943; the remaining OTO-built ships (Umbria and Molise) landed 120mm mount Q and received another two 37mm twins.
[ img ]

In August 1943, the Axis offensive in Algeria was broken by a tactical landing of US forces at Bejala. The Italians had seen it coming, but their effort to thwart it was repulsed. Among the ships lost to US and British air strikes were the carrier Sicilia, the cruiser Gorizia, and five destroyers including Molise; no Italian heavy unit managed to get into gunnery range of the invasion fleet. By that time, massive Recherchean reinforcements to Egypt had put down the arab uprising and lifted the Siege of Alexandria. Now the Axis focus on Algeria proved fatal; their few mechanized forces in Egypt were crushed in late September, their large infantry army around Alexandria was outmaneuvered and cut off, and by end of October, the Rechercheans entered Libya. A desperate German attempt to stop them failed, and the Sirte Oil fields were lost. As the Germans needed all the Rumanian Oil to keep up operations in Russia, where the costly German victory at Kursk had done little to break the Red Army and weakened the Germans more than the enemy, activities of the Italian fleet had to be drastically curtailed due to lack of oil fuel. Less than a month after the loss of the Sirte fields, the British and Americans were in Tunis, and the Italians needed to prepare for an attack on their home country. There were few Italian fleet activities in early 1944; the Supermarina planned to throw every reserve at the Allies in a decisive battle when they came. They eventually did come in April, invading Sicily with overwhelming force. A week after the initial landings, when the allies had already established or captured a dozen airfields on Sicily, an Italian fleet of a carrier, four battleships, two heavy and six light cruisers plus twenty destroyers sortied, but came under such intense air attack from both land- and carrier-based aircraft that they retreated after the loss of their flagship, a light cruiser and three destroyers for no gain to themselves. Five of six remaining Piemonte-class ships accompanied the fleet (Piemonte herself was under refit); none were lost. At that time, they had received reverse-engineered HF/DF-coils.
[ img ]

The fascist regime fell in July; before that, there was no other fleet sortie, not even when the Allies retook Malta in June against zero resistance. Most of the fleet went over to the Allies after the coup, including Umbria, Lazio, Etruria and Calabria. Basilicata remained in La Spezia and was taken over by the RSI; Piemonte, still docked in Livorno, was captured by the Germans. In September 1944, Lazio put to sea with a German crew, having been renamed ZI-1; she and several other captured torpedo craft repeatedly harrassed Allied shipping at night, taking heavy losses and achieving little. She was damaged by an air attack in December and brought to La Spezia, where she was laid up and further damaged by demolition when the Germans finally retreated. By that time Basilicata had already been sunk by British aircraft in Genoa (May 1945). Piemonte was salvaged and rebuilt after the war for service with the postwar MMI; she was joined by Umbria in 1948. Lazio, Etruria and Calabria became Allied prizes in 1946; after the French exchanged Etruria for a German destroyer with the Soviets, all three ended up in Soviet hands and served – like their Italian counterparts – until well into the 1960s. By 1965, all were scrapped.

By final assessment, these ships, though hardly cost-effective, were the most effective surface combatants in Italy's destroyer fleet; they were never intended as ASW platforms, and although sonar and depth charges were added later, none of them ever sank a submarine.

Greetings
GD


Last edited by Garlicdesign on August 10th, 2020, 8:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Rhade
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: August 9th, 2020, 9:40 am
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 2804
Joined: July 27th, 2010, 12:45 pm
Location: Poland
I immediately fall in love...

_________________
[ img ]
Nobody expects the Imperial Inquisition!


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
emperor_andreas
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: August 12th, 2020, 7:51 am
Offline
Posts: 3876
Joined: November 17th, 2010, 8:03 am
Location: Corinth, MS USA
Contact: YouTube
And yet more proof that Italy builds beautiful ships. Those DDs are gorgeous!

_________________
[ img ]
MS State Guard - 08 March 2014 - 28 January 2023

The Official IJN Ships & Planes List

#FJB


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
eswube
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: August 12th, 2020, 11:29 am
Offline
Posts: 10648
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 8:31 am
Stunning as always.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Hood
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: August 13th, 2020, 2:01 pm
Offline
Posts: 7164
Joined: July 31st, 2010, 10:07 am
Beautiful work and a very believable design for the Italians to have built in this period. As you say, they sold the plans for the Tashkent class so there was no reason they could not have built similar ships themselves. The would probably have been superior to the Capitani Romani class too.

_________________
Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
ptdockyard
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: August 14th, 2020, 2:33 pm
Offline
Posts: 11
Joined: January 4th, 2014, 2:17 am
I have always wanted to see an Italian version of the Tashkent. All the variants and the excellent backstory have put me into overload :o :D


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Display: Sort by: Direction:
[Post Reply]  Page 38 of 38  [ 378 posts ]  Return to “Alternate Universe Designs” | Go to page « 134 35 36 37 38

Jump to: 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests


The team | Delete all board cookies | All times are UTC


cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]