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emperor_andreas
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: December 16th, 2016, 6:14 pm
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Most epically awesome!

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: December 17th, 2016, 5:38 am
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According to this link, Delfin Class submarines had diesel engines, not gasoline.

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/greece/gr_ss_delfin.htm
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/greece/gr_ss_x.htm

And it appears that Hellas had ordered a second pair of submarines (second link), larger and more modern.


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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: December 17th, 2016, 12:46 pm
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Yes from what I read a while back about these boats I too read that they were diesel driven and not gasoline. That seems much too flammable to me.

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: December 17th, 2016, 7:19 pm
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Hello again!

My apologies to the French sub builders - I would not have thought they started to use diesels before the Germans, and MAN ones to booth. I seem to have substituted basic research with chauvinist prejudice... :oops:

About the second pair of Greek subs I knew, but they are outside the timeframe of this chapter.

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: April 11th, 2017, 8:20 pm
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Hello again!

5. Start of the Great War
After the catastrophe of Lemnos, the Turks invited a British naval mission with the task to whip their fleet into shape. Faith in German equipment and supervision temporarily waned, although the defeat was largely self-inflicted due to neglect, poor training and (at least at Lemnos) grave tactical errors. This led to the bizarre situation that the brand-new German ships that had been ordered before the Balkan wars, but were delivered after they were over, had their crews trained and their doctrines developed by British officers. The arrival of the battleships Kanuni Sultan Suleiman and Hüdavendigar Sultan Murat and the cruisers Cerbe and Preveze theoretically undid the effects of the Greek victory at sea, because most Turkish losses were obsolete ships and the Greek Navy received only a single, much smaller capital ship in the time between the Balkan wars and the Great war. The British did a good job, and training, tactical proficiency and morale of the Ottoman fleet was much improved in the following year and a half. Although the outbreak of the war in August 1914 resulted in the seizure of all ships under construction, a few ships could be acquired from the Germans in 1914, bringing the Ottoman fleet to three capital ships, two pre-dreadnoughts, two refurbished older ironclads, two armoured cruisers, six light/protected cruisers, three torpedo gunboats and 17 destroyers. Even as late as September 1914, a bundle of new orders for two light cruisers and four destroyers was placed at various Thiarian shipyards, because Thiaria was the last remaining neutral industrial nation willing to do business with the Ottomans. It was clear to anyone involved that none of the Thiarian ships would be delivered prior to the end of hostilities; the Thiarians were also acutely aware that the Turks were unlikely to ever pay for them, but their government subsidized the programme, just in case the necessity to seize them arose, which it eventually did in April 1916. During the First world war, only few ships were obtained by the Ottoman Navy, and modernizations of older vessels were limited to what was strictly necessary. Attempts to launch domestic warship production mostly failed; four destroyers, four submarines and eight torpedo boats were approved, but only a single submarine and two of the torpedo boats were completed, and even that happened when it was already too late.

5.1. Kanuni Sultan Suleiman class battleships
During her long repair period in 1916/7, Kanuni Sultan Suleiman received a modest upgrade. She received improved fire control and communications gear; four 150mm guns and all but four 88mm guns were landed. Her sister received the same upgrade in 1917; she had already surrendered two of her 150mm guns in 1915. The removed 150mm guns were used to re-arm the light cruiser Midilli.
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5.2. Yavuz Sultan Selim class battlecruiser
The German battlecruiser SMS Goeben was marooned in the Mediterranean in 1914 and formally transferred to the Ottoman navy in August, being renamed Yavuz Sultan Selim, same as in OTL.
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By 1916, she had landed two of her 150mm guns and all except four 88mm guns; otherwise she was little changed.
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She was scrapped in the 1920s after sustaining heavy damage by French gunfire in the battle of Imbros in 1918, and multiple mine hits and a badly botched grounding on the retreat after that battle.

5.3. Preveze class light cruisers
Like their German counterparts of the Kolberg-class, these two Ottoman cruisers were re-armed with six 150mm guns and two 500mm deck torpedo tubes during 1917. The guns were newly built, imported from Germany via the Danube in February 1917. Their 57mm guns were placed in AA mounts, their searchlights were re-arranged and their bridges enlarged; rangefinders were also fitted.
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5.4. Midilli light cruiser
Same story as with Goeben for SMS Breslau, which was taken over as Midilli in 1914.
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Midilli was re-armed in two steps; in 1915, she swapped her four A and Y 105mm guns for two 150mm ones and her magnetic compass for a gyrocompass.
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In 1917, she received six more 150mm guns and landed all 105mm pieces; fire control was also modernized.
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In 1918, she struck five mines during the retreat after the battle of Imbros and capsized.

5.5. Miryakefalon class light cruisers (second attempt)
The French seized two scout cruisers under construction for the Empire when they entered the Great war in August 1914. Less than a month later, the Ottoman government struck a new deal with the Thiarians to build two fast scouts. They were at that time the world's fastest cruisers at 30 knots design speed. Their armament would have consisted of two 150mm and eight 100mm guns, plus four 450mm torpedo tubes. They were to carry the names Miryakefalon and Malazgirt, like the seized French units. Both were seized in 1916 and commissioned into the Thiarian Navy as LT Tiopraid and LT Sean an Dearg. Despite deficiencies in seakeeping, range and accomodation compared to the earlier larger Thiarian light cruisers, both ships were reliable and popular and would have made excellent additions to the Ottoman fleet.
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5.6. Muavenet-i Millieh class destroyers
The six surviving German-built Ottoman destroyers were the only ones to receive some modest upgrades; they had their bridges modified, funnels heightened where necessary, better w/t gear installed and bases of AAMGs mounted, although they usually were not deployed. The surviving Muavenet i-Millieh class ships also received 88mm guns in lieu of their original mixed armament. Yadhigar-i Millet and Gayret-i Watanieh were lost in action.
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5.7. Asar-i Sevket class destroyers
see above
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5.8. Feth-i Bülent class destroyers
The German destroyers S31 and S32 were sold to Greece in June 1914 and dispatched to the Mediterranean for delivery with German rump crews in mid-July; both were under secret orders to join up with Goeben and Breslau if the ongoing diplomatic crisis should burst into war. When this eventually happened, the destroyers joined Goeben and Breslau at Messina on August 2nd and accompanied them to Constantinople. They were transferred to the Ottoman Navy as Feth-i Bülent and Wesileh-i Nusret on August 16th.
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Both received the same modifications as the other German-built destroyers.
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5.9. Yarhisar class destroyers
Thiaria had been a customer for French destroyers for as long as Turkey; license production of exactly the French design ordered by the Ottomans in Thiaria had already been agreed upon in 1913. This made the Thiarian offer to deliver four destroyers of the Akhisar type by early 1916 seem perfectly feasible. The Ottomans ordered the ships, which were to recycle the names of the first four units of the second batch of the Akhisar-class. They were completed in time, but with the Ottoman Empire in the war since October 1914 and Thiaria since April 1916, they were seized and commissioned into the Thiarian Navy as LT Fiochmhar, Fadbhail, Flaithiuil and Fairtil.
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5.10. Tinaztepe class destroyers
In mid-1916, plans for the current generation of German destroyers and torpedo boats were acquired from the Vulcan shipyard, along with production licenses. Construction of four destroyers resembling the Vulcan-type of the German Grosses Torpedoboot 1916 was approved in October 1916, and during 1917, they were laid down in Constantinople (2) and Gölcük (2). In 1918, the names Tinaztepe, Kocetepe, Alcitepe and Yücetepe were assigned, but none of the ships was advanced very much beyond the keel when the war ended and all were broken up.
[ img ]

5.11. Nasr/Zohaf class torpedo boats
Four ex-Dutch torpedo boats were transferred to the Ottoman Empire in February 1917 to the Danube; they are identical with the OTL V105-class. They were named Nasr, Sahab, Pervin and Tarik and re-armed with 88mm guns removed from battleships. By that time, the Ottomans were already in possession of the plans, and unlike other wartime projects, construction of these rather modest vessels was actually within their capabilities. Four each were laid down at Constantinople and Gölcük, respectively, and two of the latter were completed in late 1918; neither achieved FOC before the war was over. The license built vessels were named Zohaf and Gilyom (completed units) and Sanaver, Saiki, Seham, Edirne, Bursa and Sinop (incomplete). The unfinished ships remained on stocks with works suspended during the civil war, but were declared obsolete and broken up soon afterwards. Zohaf and Gilyom were converted to patrol craft in 1933/4 and served in this capacity till 1950. They were scrapped soon afterwards. Of the four transferred ex-dutch units, Tarik was sunk by a British submarine in 1918, and Sahab was sunk by the Greek destroyer Samos in 1922; the other two were employed as patrol craft till they were scrapped in 1939.
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5.12. Piyale Pasa class submarines
Four German UC II type submarine minelayers were transferred to the Ottoman Empire in February 1917 and renamed Piyale Pasa, Murat Reis, Kurtoglu Muslihittin Reis and Piri Reis (ex UC18, UC24, UC26 and UC32, respectively). They operated all over the Aegean and the Black Sea, and one of them laid the minefield in which the Ottoman battle fleet got entangled during the battle of Imbros; they also hurt the enemy some, but not as badly. Piri Reis was lost by accident off Trabzon late in 1917. Murat Reis was scrapped and cannibalized in 1925 to keep the other two running, but they wore out quickly, and both survivors were laid up in the early Thirties. They were scrapped in 1936-1938.
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5.13. Burak Reis class submarines
Also transferred in February 1917 were four German UB II-class submarines (ex UB20, UB23, UB36 and UB39). They became Burak Reis, Oruc Reis, Hamza Bey and Celebi Ali Pasha, respectively. All operated with German crews under Turkish colours and put some dents into Russian shipping in the Black Sea in 1917 and 1918. None were lost, but as they had been built without several crucial scarce materials, they were worn out quickly and had to be scrapped in the late 1920s.
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5.14. Ottoman domestic submarine project: Gedik Ahmet Pasa class
Construction of four submarines in Turkish yards was approved in 1914; the subs were to be based on an enlargement of the German UA-design originally ordered by Norway before the war, with some modifications to minimize complexity and adapt to contemporary requirements in terms of armament and seakeeping. The most visible change was a shark-nose bow with cable-cutting gear, which predated similar arrangements on German vessels by two years. On a displacement 320/390 ts they were to mount 800hp diesels and 400hp electric motors, for a speed of 14/8 kts, and they had two 500mm torpedo tubes forward with one spare torpedo each. The 500mm aft torpedo tube could not be reloaded. An 88mm gun was installed in front of the bridge. They would have been useful, maneuverable vessels, but Turkish industry was not up to the task of building them anywhere near in time. They were laid down in 1915 and 1916, to be named Gedik Ahmet Pasa, Sinan Reis, Meyzinoglu Ali Pasa and Seydi Ali Reis. The first two were completed, but not commissioned during the war due to a string of teething troubles; Gedik Ahmed Pasa sank with all hands during trials in 1918 and was raised in 1920, but scrapped in 1923. Sinan Reis eventually commissioned in 1925 and served as a training boat. Although she bears the distinction as the first submarine to be built in Turkey (and the last one till the 1980s), she never became fully operational and spend most of her time under repair. She was decommissioned in 1946 and preserved as a memorial.
[ img ]

Greetings
GD


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BB1987
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: April 11th, 2017, 8:35 pm
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Great work as usual.

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Sources and documentations are the most welcome.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: April 11th, 2017, 10:59 pm
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Fantastic series.


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adenandy
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: April 12th, 2017, 1:55 am
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:o W O W :!: :shock:

Blimey GD, don't you have anything else to do in your life, other than draw these fantasticly AMAZING ships all the time....... Like SLEEP for example :?:

But seriously mate, jolly well done. EXCELLENT work, as always :P

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: April 12th, 2017, 7:41 am
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These are all excellent additions, its great to see this thread back in action.

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Tobius
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: April 12th, 2017, 8:47 am
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:mrgreen: Those subs are nasty good. :mrgreen:


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