[Post Reply] [*]  Page 16 of 51  [ 510 posts ]  Go to page « 114 15 16 17 1851 »
Author Message
BB1987
Post subject: Re: Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)Posted: June 10th, 2015, 3:33 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 2674
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 1:01 pm
Location: Rome - Italy
JSB wrote:
Would anybody care (much) if they are 33.600t ? rather than 30,000t (as everybody else limit is 35,000t SD/16' guns in treaty) yes its a bit cheating (on total fleet tonnage but was that not a bit arbitrary anyway to fit in different old ship ?) So if they are allowed new ships then everybody would be assuming post Jutland 35,000t to start with anyway ? (and pre LNT everybody was going to be building 35,000t replacements soon anyway till the replacement timetable in WNT got cancelled at LNT)
Well, officially Kokou hd a bit more than 60.000T available for battleship construction, so even if below the 35.000T WNT limit they still had to be 30.000T ships each, the few foreign observers that saw Kii during her sea trials estimated that given her armament and speed, and declare armor they would have probably been 33.600T units to work properly (in short, that's what I've got from springsharp as the minimum standard displacement for ships 250m long, 30m abeam, and such armed with a 23knots speed. It also roughly matches the Nelsons, which had one less 16-inch gun but more armor.), so effectively KnK, in their eyes, had built a total of 7.200 extra Tons (3.600each, a good 12%) above their comprehensive WNT battleship tonnage allowance. Given Koko's alliance with Japan and the fact thet IJN heavy cruisers were suspected to be overweight as well was enough for Westerns to further limitate naval construction. So to negate the possibility of a combined IJN/KnK outnumbering the USN and RN in the Pacific.
JSB wrote:
But at 42.847T standard I don't think you can hide that much and will have a huge impact, (ie USN/RN will walk from the treaty or set a new 40-45,000t limit and will build ships post LNT)
That's indeed a tricky subject I admit it. But the USN took 4 to 5 years to correctly guess how big and armed the Yamatos were. All I need is having them believe the Kiis were 33.600T ships until 1934/1936, then the treaties will collapse on their own as in OTL and more Battleships will grace the seas. (hint: Montanas serving in WWII)

_________________
My Worklist
Sources and documentations are the most welcome.

-Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)
-Koko Kaiun Yuso Kaisha - KoKaYu Line (Koko AU spinoff)
-Koko - Civil Aviation


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
JSB
Post subject: Re: Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)Posted: June 10th, 2015, 4:55 pm
Offline
Posts: 1430
Joined: January 21st, 2014, 5:33 pm
A few more questions (hope you don't mind discussions of back story, I wouldn't want to detract from the great drawings)
BB1987 wrote:
......So to negate the possibility of a combined IJN/KnK outnumbering the USN and RN in the Pacific. ..
1 - Do you mean the IJN + KnK v USN (or RN) or the IJN + KnK v USN and RN ?

2 - Historically the treaty's allowed 60% (and 66% for post Jutland ships, then 70% for light stuff at LNT)
This was thought to allow the IJN to defend itself (v 1/2 USN or RN) but not strike out of area. What ratio does your AU have IJN+KNK v USN (or RN)?
If you allow KnK to have tonnage would RN not say that AUS/CAN/NZ/SA/IND should also get them (and USA will just say NO or we out spend you all) ?

3 - As to new ships building any post WNT ships changes the ratio of post Jutland ships as well so 2 more (for JN/KnK) means 3 more for USA/RN to maintain ratios ? (and would the IJN be happy letting KnK having its prime tonnage)

4 - As to 42,847T v 30,000t is a huge difference and would IMO be easily detectable (and Yamato doesn't count as the IJN had pulled out of the treaty's and was very secretive and building up to war (already in china), if they do the same in peacetime in late 20s/early 30s then would the treaty's not fail early ? (or IJN/KnK gets hit by USA/GB demanding that the still civilian Japanese and Koko governments starts behaving itself and share inspection of ships etc ? in 1930 Germany and Italy are not going to be in picture so Japan (with koko) is going to be alone v rest of the world)

5 - Are the IJN ships historically (and therefore KnK should be) over weight (well at least as much as later) early on ? I may be wrong but did they not start trying to fit to much in (slightly over weight) and then have to add to ships (to make them very over weight) in the post 36 era ? (after they discovered how unstable the ships are in big weather)


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
BB1987
Post subject: Re: Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)Posted: June 11th, 2015, 1:21 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 2674
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 1:01 pm
Location: Rome - Italy
JSB wrote:
A few more questions (hope you don't mind discussions of back story, I wouldn't want to detract from the great drawings)
BB1987 wrote:
......So to negate the possibility of a combined IJN/KnK outnumbering the USN and RN in the Pacific. ..
1 - Do you mean the IJN + KnK v USN (or RN) or the IJN + KnK v USN and RN ?
Admittedly, the best word there should have been 'or', it's entierely my fault for not having elaborated that sentence a bit more. The 'and' with which I've come out was the result of myself thinking about how the USN was split between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, and that just a part of the RN was committed in the far east. Although it is also true that without another conflict drawing fleet strenght in another areas, huge chunks of the USN and RN atlantic fleets would have been moved to the Pacific (like it was done at the end of WWII).
JSB wrote:
2 - Historically the treaty's allowed 60% (and 66% for post Jutland ships, then 70% for light stuff at LNT)
This was thought to allow the IJN to defend itself (v 1/2 USN or RN) but not strike out of area. What ratio does your AU have IJN+KNK v USN (or RN)?
If you allow KnK to have tonnage would RN not say that AUS/CAN/NZ/SA/IND should also get them (and USA will just say NO or we out spend you all) ?
Ratios for my AU WNT can be found on the first page, but they are more or less the same as OTL with top tonnage beign 610.000T instead of 525.000T
United States of America: 5, United kingdom: 5, Empire of Japan: 3, Republic of Koko: 1,25 (French Republic: 1,75, Kingdom of Italy: 1,75).
The combined capital ship tonnage for IJN+KnK is 4,25, more than 60% but still less than the 5 of the USN or the RN. The ratio issues had been skirted aound previously too in this thread (page 7)
BB1987 wrote:
Sumeragi wrote:
JSB wrote:
The problem with Ratio changes is that OTL the US (and GB) are just massively richer so they don't have to accept anything less than superiority at 5v3 (and GB can just insist on septate totals for AUS/CAN/NZ/etc)
True, and the only way UK would likely accept something less is if they were completely trashed during WW1 and thus relied on having a solid alliance with Japan.
Well, it is not the first time, and will not be the last, that I'll bend real history for my convenience :P
It's indeed a bit convienient for this AU, but assuming that in this timeline the WNT somewhat managed to end with a ratio for Koko (which is by that time a separate state bonded to Japan by an alliance, and not something like a British Dominion), passing over how exactly it ended up that way. Otherwise, one would assume that in a way or another Koko and Japan would have forcedly allowed for a comprehensive ratio of 3 for both combined, or the US could have simply said no to everything, but at this point, this AU would have never existed.
JSB wrote:
3 - As to new ships building any post WNT ships changes the ratio of post Jutland ships as well so 2 more (for JN/KnK) means 3 more for USA/RN to maintain ratios ? (and would the IJN be happy letting KnK having its prime tonnage)
after the WNT ratifications in 1922 the USN has 1 post-Jutland ship (USS Maryland), and is allowed to complete another 5 ships (Colorado, West Virginia, Constellation, Constitution and United States) for a total of 6.
RN has 1 (HMS Hood), and is allowed to build or complete another 4 ships (Nelson, Rodney and two G3 class Battlecruisers that I've not named yet), for a total of 5
IJN has 2, Mutsu and Nagato, and is allowed to complete Tosa, for a total of 3
KnK had none, but is granted completion of a capital ship from Japan (Amagi), then after 1927 one ship can be built, or two if older capital ships are scrapped to free extra tonnage, for a total of 3.
So, currently with Kii and Owari, added to the older amagi, KnK has those 3 ships, which were contemplated back in 1922 already. So those two are not, technically, ships that need an USN or RN answer but were part of the bigger picture since the beginning.
post-Jutland ratio here is as low as 50% for IJN and KnK compared to the USN, and 60% compared to RN. Obviously if we do combine the to eastern powers things changes a bit, that'a a possible flaw, but I refer to point 2 about Koko and Japan beign considered to completely different entities at the time the WNT was ratified.
JSB wrote:
4 - As to 42,847T v 30,000t is a huge difference and would IMO be easily detectable (and Yamato doesn't count as the IJN had pulled out of the treaty's and was very secretive and building up to war (already in china), if they do the same in peacetime in late 20s/early 30s then would the treaty's not fail early ? (or IJN/KnK gets hit by USA/GB demanding that the still civilian Japanese and Koko governments starts behaving itself and share inspection of ships etc ? in 1930 Germany and Italy are not going to be in picture so Japan (with koko) is going to be alone v rest of the world)
Well, but the Kiis were recognized to not beign 30.000T units, Brits and Americans just underestimated what their true displacement was :mrgreen: . Joking aside, that's another borderline case, but such ships can perfectly work on a 33.600T displacement, they could be just another example of a rising sun Navy (or ex-rising sun in case of Koko) trying to pack more punch into a smaller hull (see point 5). Keeping something secret from others sometime was possible even during peacetime years: For quite a long time (although I admit I do not know for exactly how many years) foreigners believed that the Top speed of the Nagato class Battleship was 23knots, when it was instead 26,7. Some of the early IJN reconstructions to the Kongou class Battlecruisers (done during the treaty era and before Japan denounced both the league of nations na dthe WNT(LNT) were also not within limitations, as they exceeded the amount of extra tonnage that could be added to the ship's original displacement.
For their point of view, foreign observers could determine the size of the Kii class, and had, from their eyewithness, the top speed confirmed at 23knots (although that was not true, but that's another story). Armour figures were given, and based on those specifications it was determined that the ships were 3.600, or a bit more, over their declared weight. We might say that some observers could have possibly suspected that the Kiis might have displaced 35.000T standard instead, which was the treaty limit.
All that I need is that no suspect arose about the Kii class dsplacing even more than 33.600/35.000T until 1933 (although I've said 1934/36 previosuly, bu both are fine, if one of the two possibiliies is more beliavable, the better) when a large government turmoil (which is basically a coup d'etat in anything but name), will basically close the country to foreigners as much as it is possible, side with Japan, denounce the Treaties and withdraw from the league of nations. For now I've just imagined that other nations might be more prone to just enforce limitations before thinking of letting the treaties collapse and start a new building spree, since we are just a years after the 1929 markets crash.
JSB wrote:
5 - Are the IJN ships historically (and therefore KnK should be) over weight (well at least as much as later) early on ? I may be wrong but did they not start trying to fit to much in (slightly over weight) and then have to add to ships (to make them very over weight) in the post 36 era ? (after they discovered how unstable the ships are in big weather)
The Myoko class heavy cruisers were completed between 1928 and 1929 were 10.545T in light conditions (which is usualy up to 1.000T less than standard displacement, at full load they were pretty close to 14.500T) ships, already above the 10.000T limit for heavy cruisers, the Takaos,t hen under construction, ended up beign 11.150T light. So, even discounting the Takaos, the four Myokos were in the picture already, being some 10% overweight. The IJN started almost immediately in trying to pack the highest possible punch on their ships in order to have superior units under the current limitations. This is, for example reflected on the Myokos themselves, initially planned by Yuzuru hiraga as 8x203mm gunned warships without torpedoes, but ended as 10x203mm ones with four triple banks of side-mounted torpedo tubes. Both the Aobas and Furutakas, despite beign within the 10.000T limit for cruisers, ended up beign overweight, if compared to their planned displacement. The same was for the Light Cruiser Yuubari and Even the Fubuki class DDs, as it later emerged when two units lost their bows due to structural fatigue during the Fourth Fleet incident.


That's all, hope you will like a few parts of it at least :mrgreen:

_________________
My Worklist
Sources and documentations are the most welcome.

-Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)
-Koko Kaiun Yuso Kaisha - KoKaYu Line (Koko AU spinoff)
-Koko - Civil Aviation


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
JSB
Post subject: Re: Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)Posted: June 11th, 2015, 7:16 pm
Offline
Posts: 1430
Joined: January 21st, 2014, 5:33 pm
Thanks for the reply, at the end of the day its your AU and it looks amazing :ugeek: :mrgreen: :D 8-)


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Hood
Post subject: Re: Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)Posted: June 12th, 2015, 7:38 am
Offline
Posts: 6362
Joined: July 31st, 2010, 10:07 am
Agreed, they are amazingly good looking designs.

_________________
Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
BB1987
Post subject: Re: Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)Posted: June 17th, 2015, 11:19 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 2674
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 1:01 pm
Location: Rome - Italy
History update. Walltext incoming!

8.The London Naval Treaty (1930-1931)
At the turn of the decade, a new conference for naval arms limitation was called. From January 21st to April 22nd all signatories of the Washington Naval Treaty, with the addition of the newcomer Thiara, met in London to resolve the unfilled issues left after the 1927 Geneva conference and to extend WNT regulations.
In a state of general financial instability after the market crash of 1929, -which had hit hard most of the nations involved, with the sole exception of Thiaria being marginally affected- the general feeling was that most nations aimed at putting a limit to any possible building spree that could have beens tarted by one of the signatories, this particularly feared for the Thiarian Navy, and to a lesser extent, for Koko no Kaigun.
For the first time, distinction was made between cruisers armed with guns up to 6.1-inch (155mm) and those sporting guns up to 8-inch (203mm). The former being designated Light Cruisers and the latter Heavy Cruisers. The treaty also extended the tonnage cap on the newly re-designated Cruisers, Destroyers and also Submarines. Some older capital ships were also set to be decommissioned or converted to training duties.
Ratio for battleships was retained, with Thiaria granted a fifth of USN and British tonnage at 122.000T, Capital ship building holiday was extended and aircraft carrier quotas were also retained. Thiaria, again, gained 40.600T in Aircraft Carrier construction and 41.600T in Heavy Cruisers. Heavy cruiser tonnage was set at 182.880T for the US Navy (for a total number of 18 units), 149.149T for the Royal Navy (for a total of 15 ships) and 110.134 for the IJN (for 12 ships), Thiaria could exploit it's tonnage with a maximum of 5 ships. Light cruisers were also limited in tonnage but not in numbers 145.796T for the USN, 195.275T for the RN, 102.057T for the IJN and 39.905T for Thiaria. Destroyer tonnage was capped at 152.400T for both the USN and RN, 107.188T for the IJN and 38.100T for thiaria. Maximum destroyer standard tonnage was set at 1.850T, with no more than 16% of the allotted tonnage to be exploited by vessels above 1.500T. Submarine tonnage numbers were 53.543T for the USN, RN and IJN, Thiaria got 13.385T. France and Italy ultimately decided no to sign.
The United States Navy allowed to retire B-32 Wyoming and convert her for training duties, while the Royal Navy would have scrapped the old Battlecruiser Tiger and demilitarized the Battleship Iron Duke. Japan was to scrap Settsu and demilitarize or convert into a training ship the Battlecruiser Hiei.
Koko Tonnage ratios were the result of more complex negotiations that just a simple fulfillment of treaty ratios. In the years after the WNT Koko no Kaigun had built an enormous number of Cruisers, matching Japan in Light units, and had started to build heavy cruisers too. A large number of Destroyers had entered service or was being built, and a sizable Submarine program had been started recently. On top of that, duing the conference wors started to spread that the two battleships built by Koko under the WNT agreement were possibly up as 4.000T over their declared 30.000T standard displacement.
Both the US and GB delegations worked in order to limit KnK at the lowest achievable level as to avoid where possible that the combined force of the Japanese and Koko fleets reached superiority. After a constant clash with Koko's delegation which was unwilling to give up on their claims, a last-minute agreement was finally reached.
Initial cruiser tonnage proposal was made by the British delegation as 45.720T for CAs and 48.818T for Cls, but koko was highly unwilling to scrap seven light cruisers built between 1920 and 1923 Heavy cruiser tonnage was capped at 14.200T, expendable on just two ships (the already commissioned Saimei and the under construction Nanto), with the remaining 77.338T allotted to the Light cruisers, for a total Cruiser allowance of 91.538T, roughly a quarter of the British total and not enough to reach parity with the US fleet even if added to the IJN's tally. Submarines were limited to just 12.605T enough to allow completion for the units already under construction, no new build were allowed. Battleship Yagumo was to be removed from active service and converted into a training ship.
A point of high divergence was that concerning Destroyer tonnage. Both the American and British initially proposed a 38.100T limit, which was bluntly rejected by Koko's delegation as it would have forced to scrap 30 Destroyers, two thirds of them less than 7 years old, other than another six under construction and four more already funded and about to be laid down, and thus deemed unacceptable. A compromise was reached by raising the cap tonnage at 72.806 and cutting the planned units from four to three, and Koko agreed to scrap the ten oldest Destroyers in the fleet. Still this apparently generous concession came with a counterbalance: 34.000 extra tons in Destroyers coupled with the overweight problems of the Kii class Battleships let both the US and British delegations to negate any Aircraft Carrier tonnage to Koko for the second time, despite some protests coming even from the Japanese delegation. Thiarians did not interfered with the matter, as they felt that the concessions they had managed to obtain were highly satisfactory and preferred to avoid any other matter. Koko's representatives strongly protested and tried again to obtain at least some 20.000T for Aircraft carriers, but when the British demanded that separate tonnage from Commonwealth members should have been added in that case Koko finally gave up any claim and accepted the limitations.
The London Naval treaty was thus officially signed on April 22nd 1930, and ultimately ratified on October 27, 1930.


LNT (London Naval Treaty):
Firmataries:
United States of America, United kingdom, Empire of Japan, Thiarian High Republic, Republic of Koko.
French Republic, Kingdom of Italy partecipated but did not signed.

Ships to be demilitarized or scrapped:
United States of America:
BB-32 Wyoming to be scrapped or converted to training duties.

United kingdom:
BC Tiger to be scrapped.
BB Iron duke to be demilitarized

Empire of Japan:
BB Settsu to be scrapped.
BC Hiei to be demilitarized and converted to training duties.

Republic of koko:
BB Yagumo to be demilitarized and converted to training duties.

Generic tonnage allowances:
Heavy cruisers:
USA 182.880
GB 149.149
JAP 110.134
THIARIA 41.600
KOKO 14.200

Light cruisers:
USA 145.796
GB 195.275
JAP 102.057
THIARIA 39.905
KOKO 77.338

Destroyers:
USA 152.400
GB 152.400
JAP 107.188
THIARIA 38.100
KOKO 72.806

Submarines:
USA 53.543
GB 53.543
JAP 53.543
Thiaria 13.385
KOKO 12.605
(open spoilers to show scrapped warships and tonnage limitations)


9.Breaking Treaties (1931-1934)
A few years before the London Naval Conference, in 1928, Koko's elections were won by a coalition led by Kusako Morimoto, which became Koko's new prime minister. Kusako, despite being a member of the Morimoto family, which had ruled Koko for centuries under their shogunate until forced out their positions during the Meiji restoration, had always been an outcast within his family. Unlike many of his relatives -which choose to retire to private life after beign overthrown from power during the late 1860s- Kusako had always been a fervent supporter of the Imperial rule and a militarist. He was firmly convinced that Koko's fortunes would have been grater the more Koko would have followed and supported Japanese policies. During his term, Morimoto took the advantage to put trustworthy officers within Koko no Kaigun and Koko no Rikugun, also tightening his connections with IJA's higher ups during his frequent trips to Tokyo, having served himself with the KnR - under Imperial Japanese Army command in China- during WWI, leaving service because of injuries he suffered during the siege of Tsingtao.
After the ratification of the LNT Morimoto used the limitations imposed upon Koko no Kaigun as a mean to spread anti-western propaganda to appeal right-wing nationalists, his government also passed a bill, later jointly ratified with Japan, that allowed an IJA division to be permanently stationed on Koko's territory. Officially this was for joint exercises, drills and training with Koko no Rikugun troops, in reality their purpose was to keep an eye on those groups inside KnR which were openly critical of the Government course of action.
Another bill was passed to fund the new Koko no Kaigun naval construction plan, centered around treaty-skirting Destroyers like the Shizuha class, the Suiraiteis and the Hayabusa Seaplane Tenders, which were actually Seaplane Cuisers in anything but name.
When the Mukden incident occurred, on September 18th 1931, Morimoto openly supported the Japanese claims, although he ultimately did not send Rikugun troops to support the IJA as he originally planned. His governemnt also recognized the puppet state of Manchuko when it was later established. The cabinet course of actions actually backfired after the subsequent international backlash towards Japan and Koko, leading Morimoto to lose the 1932 elections, although he still managed to held grips onto the political scene thanks to the trusted men he had placed were needed, ultimately succeeding of being appointed as the Minister fo the Interior in the new cabinet..
In March 1933 Japan withdrew from the League of Nations after it refused to acknowledge Machucko as an independent nation, Koko momentarily remained a member of it, as the new government struggled on it's internal factions about deciding what the most suited course of action would have been: Leaving the League of Nations or start to withdraw from their alliance with Japan. Later, on August 11th 1933, geological surveys on the island of Nintoku led to the discovery of a sizable oil field below the northwestern shores of the island. Morimoto immediately proposed to exploit the fields and to supply Japan with any extra storage the oil fields would have produced, this generated protests within those faction within the Government and Koko no Rikugun which opposed to further alliance with Japan in order to not to be caught in the crossfire of the recently building tensions between Japan and Western powers.
On November 8th 1933, a dissatisfied group of Rikugun soldiers tried to storm Kusako Morimoto house with the intent of preventing him to interfere anymore with the State affairs, being it by arrest or killing him if needed, Other men were supposed to secure the government buildings from external interference in order to protect politicians which were favorable of cutting ties with Japan from right-wing retaliation. The plan was foiled thanks to Morimoto links within the Rikugun, with the IJA garrisons also taking part in suppressing the rebels. Within two days the attempted coup was vanquished, with Morimoto exploiting the situation to place all the blame on the left wing and, supposedly, pacifist factions which were used as scapegoats for his benefit. Committing his loyal men and the IJA troops he actually reversed the coup while claiming that he was acting to restore order and stability to the country. By December 2nd 1933, all opposition factions were largely purged, and Morimoto was appointed to form a new government. As one of the first actions of the new cabinet, Morimoto renewed Koko's alliance with Japan, then, on February 5th, 1934, Koko officially withdrew from the League of Nations.

10.Towards WWII (1934-1941)
Within days of his reinstatement as a Prime Minister, Morimoto passed a rearmament bill that actually restarted Naval constructions despite the limitations of the London Naval Treaty. Submarines production was restarted in 1933, with two units being laid down under the pretext that they were going to replace the two oldest units within the fleet. Full-size destroyer production restarted by late 1934, immediately followed by heavy cruisers, although at first planned to be light cruisers, claimed to be replacing the older Kashino class. Thus, when Japan and koko jointly announced their denunciation of the Washington Naval Treaty on December 29th 1934, Koko was actually ignoring it since a year.
In December 1935, both Koko and Japan deserted the Second London Naval Conference, clearly revealing that both governments were inclined to let the treaty provision to expire at the end of the year. Then, on November 25th 1936, both nations ratified the Anti-Comintern pact along with Germany. Despite Morimoto pushed as usual in his immovable resolve to follow Japan, the pact was well accepted by most of the population,, as the Soviets had been perceived as a great threat since the years following WWI, with the distrust of Kokoans towards them being even stronger than that against the United States. In light of the newborn alliances and the imminent collapse of the Washington Naval Treaty Morimoto's government passed another rearmament bill: Light cruiser construction restarted in late 1936, with the first new battleship being laid down by December of the same year, with a second class of heavy cruisers following. For the first time in it's history, in 1937, Fleet carriers were laid down for Koko no Kaigun, with the establishment of the naval aviation branch for the Navy, two Seaplane tenders under construction were to be converted into Light Carriers.
When the Second Sino-Japanese War broke out after the Marco Polo bridge incident in August 1937, a few Koko no Rikugun garrisons joined the IJA during the first stages of the conflict, but no sizable reinforcements were made until 1939, so that, by chance, no Rikugun soldier was involved in the Nanjing Massacre.
By 1938, Morimoto had manged to extend his influence within the Rikugun higher-ups and the IJA troops stationed in Koko so much that this, combined with his ties with Tokoyo's government, almost placed his own country under direct Japanese control. Under this conditions, despite concern among civilian population about the current course of actions started to arise again, Morimoto's party had it's leadership confirmed. By September 1940 Koko and Japan had joined Germany, Italy and Thiaria in the Axis powers, subsequently, Koko and Japan signed the Neutrality Pact with the Soviet Union in April 1941. After the fall of France, in 1940, Japanese troops occupied the French Indochina, causing great backlash from the United States, which began an embargo on goods such as petroleum and scrap iron products. Such embargo was quickly extended to Koko as well.
When On July 25, 1941, all Japanese and Kokoan assets in the US were frozen, the situation deteriorated to a point of no-return. Despite being rich of raw materials deposits, Koko's resources were not enough to support both both countries military strength. While Iron and Copper mines production proved to be almost enough to supply the rearmament programs, the mobility of the IJN and Koko no Kaigun was dependent on now dwindling oil reserves, as Koko oil fields were could not support prolonged naval operation unless extra sources could be exploited. This had the effect of increasing Japan's dependence on and need for new acquisitions. When the attempted negotiations between Japan, Koko and the United States failed Most military leaders in Japan and Koko, including Kusasko Morimoto himself, believed that a war against the United states and the Western powers was now inevitable.
On the night between November 29th and November 30th 1941, under the cover of darkness, the IJN Kido Butai crossed Kyofu Kaikyo, en route to attack Pearl Harbor. Then on December 4th 1941, the bulk of Koko no Kaigun carrier force left Toumachi Bay bound for Midway Island, with another naval formation leaving Taniguchi on the same day and steaming for Attu, Aleutians.
The pacific war was about to start.


Afternote:
For those who might notice some inconsitencies regarding some Thiarian facts quoted here, that's a deliberate choice. Garlic mentioned Koko a few times in his Thiaria AU, as a sort of "homage" to my AU. I'm very flattered by that, so, because I do particularly like his AU I've thought about returning his mentions. Yet it is quite reasonably understandable that it would be quite hard (if not impossible) to have the two AUs match perfectly, so take is as as two possible storylines happening in two different 'tmelines', indeed. This allows for both of us to freely take our AUs were were most plase to :D

_________________
My Worklist
Sources and documentations are the most welcome.

-Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)
-Koko Kaiun Yuso Kaisha - KoKaYu Line (Koko AU spinoff)
-Koko - Civil Aviation


Last edited by BB1987 on June 13th, 2016, 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
[Profile] [Quote]
BB1987
Post subject: Re: Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)Posted: June 19th, 2015, 2:50 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 2674
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 1:01 pm
Location: Rome - Italy
Sheet time: Koko no Kaigun fleet review as of October 1930.

[ img ]
warning, huge 5.500x-6150px image


afternote: I've inserted the ships under construction as text only since the sheet has grown so large that it is almost unmanageable. Ive also left out the Icbreakers as I would have to insert supply ships, oilers and other auxiliaries, which I do not have (and their incluion would have made the sheet grow again).
Also, this shows the fleet just before the LNT provision entered into effect, so the planned units listed on the sheet might not translate exactly into drawings (for example, the third Hakugei AS is listed as under construction, but as the class entry previously featured in this thread stated, she was canceled and scrapped months after the treaty ratification).

_________________
My Worklist
Sources and documentations are the most welcome.

-Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)
-Koko Kaiun Yuso Kaisha - KoKaYu Line (Koko AU spinoff)
-Koko - Civil Aviation


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
emperor_andreas
Post subject: Re: Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)Posted: June 19th, 2015, 3:37 pm
Offline
Posts: 3375
Joined: November 17th, 2010, 8:03 am
Location: Corinth, MS USA
Contact: Website, Skype, YouTube
EPIC!

_________________
[ img ]
MS State Guard - 08 March 2014 - present

The Official IJN Ships & Planes List


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
JSB
Post subject: Re: Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)Posted: June 19th, 2015, 5:10 pm
Offline
Posts: 1430
Joined: January 21st, 2014, 5:33 pm
8-) 8-) 8-) :ugeek: :mrgreen:
Very nice AU and really appreciate the fleet reviews makes it easy to sum it all up.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
BB1987
Post subject: Re: Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)Posted: June 19th, 2015, 5:42 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 2674
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 1:01 pm
Location: Rome - Italy
JSB wrote:
8-) 8-) 8-) :ugeek: :mrgreen:
Very nice AU and really appreciate the fleet reviews makes it easy to sum it all up.
Thanks.
For the future, I think I'll split the 1936 and (especially) the 1941 fleet reviews, or my PC is going to explode while I'm making them :mrgreen:


Next steps here will be telling the 1930-1940/41 story for the ships built before 1930 (expect DDs, CLs, two BBs and a BC), then I'll move to the ships that got actually built during the 1930s. :)

_________________
My Worklist
Sources and documentations are the most welcome.

-Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)
-Koko Kaiun Yuso Kaisha - KoKaYu Line (Koko AU spinoff)
-Koko - Civil Aviation


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Display: Sort by: Direction:
[Post Reply]  Page 16 of 51  [ 510 posts ]  Return to “Alternate Universe Designs” | Go to page « 114 15 16 17 1851 »

Jump to: 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


The team | Delete all board cookies | All times are UTC


cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]