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citizen lambda
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: December 25th, 2016, 3:38 pm
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Hexelarity wrote:
A Helicopter carrier is unnecessary and your nation doesn't need amphibious assault vessels as your nation should be focusing on a defensive doctrine instead of a interventionist type.
And where did you get the impression that helicopter carriers and amphibious assault ships were the same thing? Ever heard about the JDS Hyuga, or the Izumo? How about the Moskva class, Pr.1123 Kondor? Or the numerous WW2-era escort carriers that were converted to ASW carriers in the 1950s, several of which soldiered on with a helicopter-only loadout when their ASW aircraft left service? The concept of an ASW-only carrier is neither new nor exceptional, and a 1970s new construction as shown here make more sense with helicopters only than in a CATOBAR configuration (that's without mentioning the complete lack of CATOBAR experience in the Eastern block at that time). I'll admit that the Yak-38s are politically dubious, and completely useless to boot.

So sure, you can use an ASW helo carrier to deploy heliborne commandos (that was the whole concept of the RN commando carriers of the 1960s-70s as well as the USS Iwo Jima), but that doesn't make it a purpose-built LHD, nor does it make it useless without a power projection mission.
The CCCN here is an archipelago nation located in an area prone to natural disasters of all kind (it contains Haiti, after all). If they know what is good for them, they will invest heavily in helicopters and light aviation at the first occasion to improve communications between islands and disaster relief. Even the USN LHAs and LHDs spend more time ferrying supplied ashore than carrying troops to assault landings. In a peace-time context, even a full-fledged LHD would make sense here to make up for the shortfalls in infrastructure caused by the local geography.
Sidebar @RegiaMarina1939: import loads of Polnocniy LSTs and surplus Soviet LCMs in the 1970s for exactly that purpose.

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: January 30th, 2017, 8:49 pm
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I lied. The next thing I do here will be a bunch of planes separately, not on a chart, for the reason that I am bad at FD scale. So, they will all be posted at once, with information concerning acquisition, service history, and technical details. Next set of ships will probably be a new sub class and escort ships for the carriers. Anybody have any input on a program like springsharp but for modern ships? I noticed psilander used one for his Swedish navy AU but I don't know which one it is.

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: January 31st, 2017, 1:50 am
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[ img ]
-The Mi-14 was the air force's first big helicopter purchase since the Mi-2 and the Mi-24, and it played a significant part in joint operations exercises and operations during the 80's and 90's. It's primary task was to transport troops and equipment around during operations and training practices, and it's amphibious capability gave it increased potential. First acquired in 1980, there were 30 of them in service by 1985. They were mostly unarmed, but they could carry a pair of general-purpose machine guns in the light attack and assault transport role. Additional options were available, including the fitting of grenade launchers, smoke projectors, searchlights, and loudspeakers. 14 were acquired for use by the special air force training academy, and were used to train air assault troops. However, with the establishment of a separate air corps for the marine force, they really came into their own. The ability to land in the water gave them the ability to assist in amphibious landings, and before long 48 were purchased by the marines. They were painted in the dark green hue that was to become popular with all the Marine helicopters of the time. In total, there were 168 of them in service with the military, and nearly 100 more in service with civilian agencies. These included the forestry service, coast guard, and oil platform maintenance crews. They are all still in service, and the military is planning to modernize or replace them around 2020-2025, possibly with Italian/British AgustaWestland or Eurocopter aircraft.


[ img ]
-First acquired in 1980, the Mi-27 was the air force's primary ground-attack and multi-role aircraft. The initial batch of them that was purchased was mainly tasked with ground support operations and tank killing, these aircraft being armed with guided air-to-ground munitions and general-purpose bombs of up to 500 pounds weight. However, with the birth of the nuclear weapons program, the aircraft were re-tasked with dropping tactical nuclear weapons on American naval groups and troop positions. They were based primarily in Cuba, with 48 stationed there. 12 of these were at the disposal of the tactical nuclear fleet. 36 of 48 aircraft were to be battle-ready at any given time. In Hispaniola, there were 8 aircraft, and in the Antilles, 24, with 8 nuclear-capable aircraft between the two locations. With the advent of stand-off tactical nuclear missiles, the toss-bombing tactics practiced by the pilots of the 4th. and 7th. Special Attack Wings had to be re-trained to operate the new weapons. For this task, Soviet experts were brought in. Typically, however, these aircraft were employed as multirole combatants, with a payload consisting of a pair of short-range AAM's, and a pair of ATGM's. These could, of course, be swapped for entirely ground-attack roles, in which case bombs, missiles, and rockets were carried. They could be employed as fighters as well, with up to 4 AAM's. They continued in service until the 90's, when it was planned to replace them in the ground-attack role by Sukhoi SU-25 aircraft. This plan was only partially implemented, however, when the collapse of the USSR halted deliveries after only 16 aircraft had arrived. With the increase in relations with the USA and Europe, it is possible that they will be replaced with Harrier II's or Panavia Tornado's, though no official plan has been finalized, mainly due to lack of funds. The aircraft shown here is at the Air Force testing facility in Guantanamo Bay, being employed with no camo scheme to test new weapons systems and deployment tactics.

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Last edited by RegiaMarina1939 on January 31st, 2017, 3:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Hexelarity
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: January 31st, 2017, 1:52 am
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RegiaMarina1939 wrote:
I lied. The next thing I do here will be a bunch of planes separately, not on a chart, for the reason that I am bad at FD scale. So, they will all be posted at once, with information concerning acquisition, service history, and technical details. Next set of ships will probably be a new sub class and escort ships for the carriers. Anybody have any input on a program like springsharp but for modern ships? I noticed psilander used one for his Swedish navy AU but I don't know which one it is.
from what ive seen about springsharp is that its meant for ships built before 1950 but i may be wrong, its best to try though :)

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: January 31st, 2017, 1:54 am
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Hexelarity wrote:
RegiaMarina1939 wrote:
I lied. The next thing I do here will be a bunch of planes separately, not on a chart, for the reason that I am bad at FD scale. So, they will all be posted at once, with information concerning acquisition, service history, and technical details. Next set of ships will probably be a new sub class and escort ships for the carriers. Anybody have any input on a program like springsharp but for modern ships? I noticed psilander used one for his Swedish navy AU but I don't know which one it is.
from what ive seen about springsharp is that its meant for ships built before 1950 but i may be wrong, its best to try though :)
Yeah from playing with it a bit I see the maximum date you can put in is 1950, so I guess I can't SS any ships for this AU, which is what I kind of wanted to do... That is unless I can find another program.

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: January 31st, 2017, 11:48 am
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Next up for this AU will probably be my new class of subs, escort ships, and then maybe some more aircraft/army stuff.

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citizen lambda
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: February 1st, 2017, 10:29 pm
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Nice to see some new material here! The backstories are a treat for this kind of units.
Couple of nitpicky points regarding your aircraft here:
- The MiG-27 is "Flogger", not "Foxbat" in NATO parlance. Can't really mix the two airplanes.
- The vanilla MiG-27 is the 1975 version, which was mostly overhauled during the 1980s and never exported AFAIK. If you want to stick with the high-end MiG-27 (a plane that was deemed too expensive and complex to fight in Afghanistan), wait until ca. 1985 and get some new MiG-27M "Flogger-J" like India did. If you want to stick to your IOC, you'll have to fall back on the less-capable MiG-23BN "Flogger-H", which was the main export variant. An in-between would be to get a handful of baseline 27s from Soviet surplus for evaluation and training, and then fill up more squadrons with the 27M. Bonus points if Soviet units deploy the same aircraft from the same bases in the CCCN.
- Stand-off nuclear missiles on MiG-27s? Do you have anything specific in mind? Or maybe a home-grown AU model? I can't find a single nuclear ASM for that platform, since the Soviets weren't big fans of PGMs at that time and preferred relying on high-end fire control units on their aircraft (q.v. Su-24s with rockets, iron bombs and gun pods). The closest I can find is a nuke version of the anti-radar Kh-58, but it doesn't appear to have been built IRL. Modifying a Kh-29 like you have drawn here or an earlier Kh-25 would need a very small and light nuclear package, which will probably be beyond local development capabilities.
- Also, that's hardly stand-off enough anyway. Sending your pilots firing line-of-sight direct-impact nukes is just cruel. ;) A better (if less plausible) candidate is the Kh-15 SRAM analogue, which is a bit on the heavy side for a MiG-27. It could carry a pair of those to the far end of the runway... You'll need Su-24s or similar (Tornado IDS) for a strike package with a decent range.
- I can't find a definitive source on this right now, but I seem to remember that the Mi-14 isn't truly amphibious, and that the hull shape is for emergencies only. It has flotation bags after all, which are exactly as routine in operation as the airbags in your car. Don't trust me on this though, I may be mixing it up with something else, and I'll have to wait until I can unpack my paper sources to check it out. One way or another, your diver delivery Mi-14, while an interesting idea on the face of it, would need to be a local conversion with attention paid to further water-proofing the hull.
- On that topic, the torpedo-shaped thingy hanging behind the fuselage of your Mi-14? That's the MAD (magnetic anomaly detector) in stowed position. That's only used to detected submerged submarines, so if your variant doesn't do any ASW, you can delete it. Maybe rework the end of the fuselage to add clamshell doors and a platform for divers, maybe with a inch of some kind? If you have room, you could even extend the reach of your winch under the tail to drop swimmer delivery vehicles and the like.

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: February 1st, 2017, 11:41 pm
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citizen lambda wrote:
Nice to see some new material here! The backstories are a treat for this kind of units.
Couple of nitpicky points regarding your aircraft here:
- The MiG-27 is "Flogger", not "Foxbat" in NATO parlance. Can't really mix the two airplanes.
- The vanilla MiG-27 is the 1975 version, which was mostly overhauled during the 1980s and never exported AFAIK. If you want to stick with the high-end MiG-27 (a plane that was deemed too expensive and complex to fight in Afghanistan), wait until ca. 1985 and get some new MiG-27M "Flogger-J" like India did. If you want to stick to your IOC, you'll have to fall back on the less-capable MiG-23BN "Flogger-H", which was the main export variant. An in-between would be to get a handful of baseline 27s from Soviet surplus for evaluation and training, and then fill up more squadrons with the 27M. Bonus points if Soviet units deploy the same aircraft from the same bases in the CCCN.
- Stand-off nuclear missiles on MiG-27s? Do you have anything specific in mind? Or maybe a home-grown AU model? I can't find a single nuclear ASM for that platform, since the Soviets weren't big fans of PGMs at that time and preferred relying on high-end fire control units on their aircraft (q.v. Su-24s with rockets, iron bombs and gun pods). The closest I can find is a nuke version of the anti-radar Kh-58, but it doesn't appear to have been built IRL. Modifying a Kh-29 like you have drawn here or an earlier Kh-25 would need a very small and light nuclear package, which will probably be beyond local development capabilities.
- Also, that's hardly stand-off enough anyway. Sending your pilots firing line-of-sight direct-impact nukes is just cruel. ;) A better (if less plausible) candidate is the Kh-15 SRAM analogue, which is a bit on the heavy side for a MiG-27. It could carry a pair of those to the far end of the runway... You'll need Su-24s or similar (Tornado IDS) for a strike package with a decent range.
- I can't find a definitive source on this right now, but I seem to remember that the Mi-14 isn't truly amphibious, and that the hull shape is for emergencies only. It has flotation bags after all, which are exactly as routine in operation as the airbags in your car. Don't trust me on this though, I may be mixing it up with something else, and I'll have to wait until I can unpack my paper sources to check it out. One way or another, your diver delivery Mi-14, while an interesting idea on the face of it, would need to be a local conversion with attention paid to further water-proofing the hull.
- On that topic, the torpedo-shaped thingy hanging behind the fuselage of your Mi-14? That's the MAD (magnetic anomaly detector) in stowed position. That's only used to detected submerged submarines, so if your variant doesn't do any ASW, you can delete it. Maybe rework the end of the fuselage to add clamshell doors and a platform for divers, maybe with a inch of some kind? If you have room, you could even extend the reach of your winch under the tail to drop swimmer delivery vehicles and the like.
1. The Mi-14 is not diver delivery, its a troop/cargo/utility transport for the marine corps.

2. The MiG-27 uses locally developed nuclear weapons.

3. I never said anything about the Mi-14 doing ASW work...

4. I will change the backstory based on these tips. I am sure you know more about this than I do. Thanks!

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Hexelarity
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: February 3rd, 2017, 5:42 am
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Wait the Mig-27 is using nuclear weapons?

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: February 3rd, 2017, 11:50 am
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Hexelarity wrote:
Wait the Mig-27 is using nuclear weapons?
It isn't unheard of. France uses jets roughly the same size as nuclear weapons platforms, and i do remember reading somewhere that the MiG-27 has been used as a tactical nuclear aircraft.

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