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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 29th, 2016, 8:39 pm
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citizen lambda wrote:
RegiaMarina1939 wrote:
-Air force helicopters!
Now that's realistic IOC dates! Maybe a tad conservative at that ;)
OK; I'll se myself out...

The 1970s-80s evolution of your helicopter force sounds sensible and similar to that of some IRL forces. Developing a light-attack concept on the Mi-2 and then transitioning to the Mi-24 is good, but might have happened earlier, if helicopters were a local priority (see below).
The bit about the initial batch of Hinds not being fitted for (or delivered with) ATGMs and the rest carrying AT-3s is a nice touch too, though one assumes that a competent air force would have had them re-wired as soon as more modern models became available.

Still, I'm a bit surprised that you don't mention earlier helicopters. For a modern and geographically dispersed nation such as your CCCN, a dedicated transport helicopter like the Mi-8 should have been a priority acquisition at least 10 years earlier. Not to mention you taking about "more modern Mi-4 utility choppers" when the Mi-4 is the granddaddy of them all and should have been the first transport helo to enter CCCN service in the 1960s. Or is that bit just a typo and you were thinking of another model? Right know what you describe is akin to replacing Jet Rangers with Chichasaws in time for Operation Desert Storm...
Also, evolving from Mi-4 to Mi-8 to rocket-armed Mi-8TV and then branching out to Mi-24s would be more typical of Soviet-inspired doctrine, where the highlight is on assault landings and fire support, not tank-hunting. Not to say that your evolution is impossible, just atypical. Out of the Soviet allies I can think of, only Poland went this way, as well as Yugoslavia to an extent.

Of course, if you're preparing another post detailing the 1950s-70s history of the CCCN helicopter force, please disregard all of the above - except the Mi-4 part, of course.

Side note: are the non-Comintern relations of the CCCN so bad that they can't score helicopters from non-Soviet sources at all? An earlier side-order of some Alouettes or AB-47s or Westland Scouts would be another plausible start for a light-helicopter force, see e.g. Romania or Yugoslavia.

Ok I will swap out the Mi-4 for the Mi-8. I'm somewhat uninitiated when it comes to helictopers, you'll have to forgive me. I intend to have relations with non-Comintern nations to start improving around the early 90's, after the development of a small nuclear arsenal leads to the signing of several nuclear treaties, and the collapse of the Soviet Union leads to the CCCN seeking help from western nations and transitioning more towards a left wing democracy rather than a communist dictatorship. Kind of like china.
I will also take this opportunity to say that I am NOT a communist! This is just an AU and I don't sympathize with the Soviet Union or any of the Comintern states. I am rather right-wing when it comes to these sorts of things.

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Obsydian Shade
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 29th, 2016, 9:03 pm
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I'd furthermore suggest, in addition to what Lambda has already said, for your initial Mi-24s, the ones not wired for ATGMs, you might consider the Mi-24A as opposed to the D version, which was more of a pure gunship. Hind-A, with its big greenhouse canopy is delightfully retro, and a good stepping stone to the more advanced D model. They'd probably also be available rather cheap, too.

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citizen lambda
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 30th, 2016, 3:23 pm
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Obsydian Shade wrote:
I'd furthermore suggest, in addition to what Lambda has already said, for your initial Mi-24s, the ones not wired for ATGMs, you might consider the Mi-24A as opposed to the D version, which was more of a pure gunship. Hind-A, with its big greenhouse canopy is delightfully retro, and a good stepping stone to the more advanced D model. They'd probably also be available rather cheap, too.
I had wondered about that too, but the 24D made more sense with the IOC in 1983, and the -24A saw fairly limited export. I don't recall it ever being surplussed for cheap later on, since there were comparatively few around. IMO it would have gone to the CCCN only if there had been an insurgency to suppress between 1975 and 1980 or so.
Granted, it looks way dramatic and deserves all the illustration it can get, but the Mi-4 -> Mi-8 -> Mi-8T -> Mi-24D pathway I described above still feels more plausible.
Of course, any initial delivery of Hinds (whether -A or -D) would be limited in quantity anyway, and wouldn't disrupt the evolution of the bulk of the helicopter force, which would e.g. get partly converted from Mi-8T to -8TV in parallel to improve fire support on the cheap. So both pathways can co-exist after all.
RegiaMarina1939 wrote:
Ok I will swap out the Mi-4 for the Mi-8. I'm somewhat uninitiated when it comes to helictopers, you'll have to forgive me.
As a starter source on the helicopters involved, may I suggest Greg Goebel's AirVectors.net, with detailed historic write-ups on the Mi-2, Mi-4, Mi-8, and Mi-24.
RegiaMarina1939 wrote:
I intend to have relations with non-Comintern nations to start improving around the early 90's, after the development of a small nuclear arsenal leads to the signing of several nuclear treaties, and the collapse of the Soviet Union leads to the CCCN seeking help from western nations and transitioning more towards a left wing democracy rather than a communist dictatorship. Kind of like china.
Makes sense. My question, however, was more geared towards a left-wing unaligned posture similar to Yugoslavia, Romania, Libya, North Korea, etc. i.e. with a full-on Communist regime but without taking orders from Moscow. Now the emergence of your nuclear program is going to be a whole other can of worms...
RegiaMarina1939 wrote:
I will also take this opportunity to say that I am NOT a communist! This is just an AU and I don't sympathize with the Soviet Union or any of the Comintern states. I am rather right-wing when it comes to these sorts of things.
Nah, we all know you're just saying that because Uncle Fidel can't protect you anymore! :twisted:
Jokes aside, I don't think anyone on SB ascribes political intent to AU designs; maybe people tend to gravitate towards politically extreme fictional countries like the gravitate towards ginormous battleships: because they are more spectacular. No need to subscribe to the underlying ideology to appreciate a country's design acumen and ambition.
A neutrality disclaimer is never wasted, I know I spent enough time on mine, but you will be judged more by any specific outburst of enthusiasm than by the color of your AU flag. Also, the less you are politically/patriotically attached to your AU nation, the lower the risk you run to turn it into a geopolitical Mary Sue, which is never good for timeline quality.

Edited for spelling

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Last edited by citizen lambda on December 25th, 2016, 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: December 8th, 2016, 2:07 am
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CARRIER POST DELETED I WANT TO START OVER WITH A BETTER DESIGN. ALSO THE IMAGE GOT RESIZED AND I CAN'T FIX IT.

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Last edited by RegiaMarina1939 on April 16th, 2017, 2:50 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: December 8th, 2016, 2:12 am
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--Also deleted--

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Last edited by RegiaMarina1939 on April 16th, 2017, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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citizen lambda
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: December 8th, 2016, 9:01 am
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Nice to see this. First thing first, the image appears to be shrunken down by Photobucket, and doesn't show at full scale.
If you can't cut it down to 1000 pixels width without losing part of the ship, I suggest finding another image host.
Once you can show this ship in its original size, I'll be happy to discuss its design!

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: December 8th, 2016, 11:50 am
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citizen lambda wrote:
Nice to see this. First thing first, the image appears to be shrunken down by Photobucket, and doesn't show at full scale.
If you can't cut it down to 1000 pixels width without losing part of the ship, I suggest finding another image host.
Once you can show this ship in its original size, I'll be happy to discuss its design!
Alright, sure thing. I will get it done later today and I also have to finish the backstory, which I'm sort of unhappy with currently.

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: December 9th, 2016, 1:00 am
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Did that fix the problem? Backstory has also been finalized. I would be happy to hear anyone's comments and tips.

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adenandy
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: December 9th, 2016, 6:06 am
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I would suggest that your stern may get a little "damp" in any kind of weather and at any kind of speed old chap :(

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: December 9th, 2016, 12:01 pm
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adenandy wrote:
I would suggest that your stern may get a little "damp" in any kind of weather and at any kind of speed old chap :(
That's what I was thinking as well. Interestingly though, this design came without an underwater hull and I had to add it, but that stern part was still that close to the waterline. I might raise it or fill it in.

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RegiaMarina1939


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