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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 7th, 2018, 12:16 pm
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Back from the crypt with some uploads.

I've be retooling my AU again (surprise!) and trying to give it a more realistic bend while keeping it's AUy-ness. So for the modern frigates, I decided to do a take on the Danish Iver Huitfeldt class. Coincidentally enough, as I was doing this, that's when Babcock came out with their own IH inspired Type 31e proposal...so now I look like I'm late to the party haha.

[ img ]
HMNFS Sovereign, 2015

The Sovereign-class Frigate was born out of the requirement for the RNFN to replace their older Beaumont Hamel class frigates. Due to budgetary cuts and multiple governments kicking-the-can down the road, once the political will and funds were made available for the navy to procure new surface combatants, it was deemed expedient to find an off-the-shelf design that could be easily adapted to Newfoundland's purpose. After reviewing all the designs available, the RNFN chose to order a modification of the Danish Iver Huitfeld-class frigate.

While the RNFN removed the StanFlex module component, and requested it have an ASW specialization, it still maintained a high degree of adaptability in keeping with the base design. The APAR and Smart-L were replaced with a BAE Artisan radar. A single 76-mm gun was re-purposed from the proceeding class, as was the Phalanx CIWS, Harpoon/Narwhal launchers, and torpedo tubes. This was in keeping with standard RNFN practice to re-use modules wherever possible, and as it was also how the Danes built their ships, it helped keep costs down. In addition to the bow-mounted sonar, a towed-array was added at the stern. Another modification was the additional multi-purpose boat decks added to the starboard and port sides. The ship still retains the ability to store or use additional mission-specific modules under the flight deck, but with reduced space available due to the addition of the sonar-array.

The main armament is focused on two 8-cell Mk41 VLS For the Sea Ceptor missile. However, as the Sea Ceptor was delayed at the time of delivery, a leased RIM-113 RAM missile launcher was added to the bow super-firing position to provide an element of air defence capability while the RNFN waited for the Sea Ceptor to enter production.

[ img ]
HMNFS Dominion, 2018

Once the Sep Ceptor entered service, the RAM launchers was returned to Raytheon and replaced with 30mm guns.

---

I also did not like my AOR design, so I took it away and worked it again and am ready to re-post it as below. Same as before, just the Labrador-class replenishment oiler. Intended to serve both the RNFN and also fulfill Newfoundland and Labrador's NATO-fleet commitments.

[ img ]

As I haven't been able to draw a stern-hull/keel that looks halfway sensible, I used Skyder's from his AU designs, as it was an almost perfect fit for my existing hull.


Last edited by whitey_nl on June 19th, 2018, 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 7th, 2018, 1:30 pm
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Both AORs are beautiful, this above could be a second AOR to have always one available for service.


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 7th, 2018, 3:55 pm
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The frigate is quite attractive, but I don't understand the missile arrangements amidships.


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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 7th, 2018, 4:12 pm
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erik_t wrote: *
The frigate is quite attractive, but I don't understand the missile arrangements amidships.
So that may be due to my trying to add some more details to the drawings based on photos of the class. If you look at a photo of the Iver Huitfeldts, the missiles are arranged as four 8 cell Mk41 banks with flanking Mk48/56 bank options; and then the SSM's are mounted forward of these in the missile deck. So I was trying to replicate this in my drawing, with only two 8-cell banks and no additional vertical launchers; including adding the guard-rail around the Mk41's, but may have gotten it a little too muddled in the drawing. :oops: I'm going to try and clean it up a little to make it a bit more obvious what I'm trying to achieve.

[ img ]


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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 19th, 2018, 3:34 pm
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Back again, with my largest post to-date. First I'll say that I've modified my previous Sovereign class images above to make the VLS more visible amidships. Based on the images of the Iver Huitfeldts, the Mk41 does come to the same height as the top of the missile-deck enclosure. So I added in a more visible Mk41 launcher to show them just peeking out over the edge, so it doesn't appear so void, and so it makes sense why there are guard rails located there.
- - - - -

Anyway, I've been fooling around with a new cold-war era ship, and as a result I give you the Philip Francis Little Class frigates.

As the RNFN moved into the late 50's, and the demands of being a NATO naval force in the midst of the Cold War made greater demands on their limited, WWII vintage fleet; the Commodores of the fleet decided it was necessary to begin a new naval expansion program, and procure new vessels to provide a more robust naval force. Initially Newfoundland looked to ships like the Type 12M, or Rothesay class, frigates of the RN, but found their design to be too expensive for the constrains of their naval program. However, a ship like the lower-end Type 14 frigates were too limited in capability, being little-more than lightly armed convoy escorts. The RNFN wanted a vessel that had a more capable presence, in the mind of the Type 12's, but with a more affordable and quantitative feel like the Type 14's.

The end result was the Philip Francis Little Class frigate, or as it was known to naval planners and derisively-so in the RN, the "Type 26's" (14+12=26). Named for earlier Premiers of Colonial Newfoundland, and Prime Ministers of the Dominion, they were elegantly lined, if somewhat basic vessels. Intended to be able to tough it out in all parts of the North Atlantic, they were envisioned as serving as high-end convoy and fleet escorts, freeing up even more capable USN, RCN and RN ships for greater duties in the event of a Hot-War.

[ img ]
HMNFS Philip Francis Little, 1960

The Batch-1 vessels were armed with a relatively light armament, but with a focus on their ASW nature. Their primary weapons included two fixed Bidder ASW torpedoes, affixed at angles on the deck for forwarding firing to port and starboard, and a Limbo ASW mortar on the stern. Their main gun was an American system, a twin 3"/50 turret on the bow. The RNFN had adopted open 3" guns from surplus USN ships, and had used them on refitted WWII vintage ships in service with the RNFN, and decided to maintain the guns in service on their new class for the sake of commonality. Rounding out the weapons were four Bofors 40mm guns, in two single and one dual mounting.

While the ships had relatively modern machinery, it was decided to give them only a single screw, as they were still even in their most demanding work, only intended to serve as convoy or escort leaders. While it gave them a relatively healthy top speed of 25 knots, it made them somewhat un-maneuverable, a problem that would never really be corrected while they were in service.

[ img ]
HMNFS Robert Bond, 1962

After the first vessels were built, it was deemed that their AA armaments made them only moderately better than the Type 14's the RNFN had been opposed to purchasing, it was decided to make the second pair of ships in the class better armed. The aft dual Bofors launcher was removed, and its place, a quadruple SeaCat launcher was affixed. As well, an additional pair of Bidders were fitted on the stern to increase the torpedo armament. This, coupled with an updated radar suite, was meant to make these ships more capable than their Batch 1 sisters. Deemed a success, the modifications to this ships were gradually retrofitted to the first two vessels as well.

[ img ]
HMNFS Philip Francis Little, 1968

After almost a decade of service, it was again decided that the ships needed additional upgrades to make them more effective in their ASW roles. As a result, an extensive upgrade was undertaken that saw the aft deck completely renovated to accommodate a small helicopter landing area on the after-deck. The Limbo was removed, and the SeaCat was elevated to accommodate the addition of a space large enough to land a Westland Wasp of the RNFAF. While no hangar could be fitted on the relatively small vessels, the RNFN did design a unique mechanism for holding the helicopters to the deck, and placing a temporary housing over them to protect from the elements. While these "poor-man's" hangar's were found wanting, it did provide the fleet a limited capability to carry these helicopters on deployments that took them away from their normal land-based bases, if deployed outside a NATO fleet.

[ img ]
HMNFS Robert Bond, 1974

As the ships aged and started approaching their rapidly advancing use-by dates, the RNFN came up with additional methods to make the ships relevant while newer vessels came into service to supplement and replace them. One method was utilized that saw the Batch-2 vessels go through an upgrade scheme that removed the bow 3" turret, and replaced them with two forward-facing, boxed, Ikara ASW missile launchers. This, coupled with the removal of the Bidder tubes with more modern triple ASW torpedo launchers gave the ships a second-life as dedicated ASW ships. Unfortunately, by removing all but two 40mm guns, it did have the unintended consequence of making these vessels little more than beefier Type 14's.

[ img ]
HMNFS Philips Francis Little, 1982

The ships eventually got pulled out-of-service as they got older. Their small and constrained designs meant that the fleet could not justify and further upgrades as it would have required radical redesigns to the ships, which would have been far costlier than the new vessels that replaced them. The final fate of two of the vessels were was training vessels for the Royal Newfoundland Naval Academy, with one ship placed each on the East and West coasts. All but a basic armament of Bofors and torpedoes were removed, to allow for a lengthened helicopter deck. These ships would remain as such for another 10 years before being paid off and scrapped shortly after the end of the Cold War.


While a result of some flawed naval planning that insisted on ships that were "not" a too expensive or too cheap RN design, the end result was exactly what it was: a too expensive design with a too cheap product. However, despite their numerous design and operational limitations, they were still capable ships. Able to handle the rough seas with relatively good handling, if albeit in a slow and poorly turning way; they were well regarded by individual sailors of the fleet as a kind of "mut" or half-breed design. No one would ever call these ships beautiful or pure-breds, but like a good mut, they were faithful until the end.

HMNFS Philip Francis Little F83
HMNFS John Kent F84
HMNFS Robert Bond F85
HMNFS Robert Stanley Monroe F86

As always, any feedback is welcome.


Last edited by whitey_nl on June 28th, 2018, 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Charguizard
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 2:43 am
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I came to read your post because I found these latest frigates smart looking and attractive. I'm glad I did because not only are they pretty and do the drawings show a logical evolutionary path, but the fluff was interesting too. I just wonder why do you use a different window colour from previous ships?

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 8:07 am
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These are an interesting design.
They are probably a little overloaded and cramped, it feels like your trying to do a lot on a cheap hull.
Two tubes for 'Bidder' seems a bit low, maybe swap them for twins if there is room or additional single tubes.

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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 8:39 am
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The only thing I would change on this latest design, is make the helideck overhang the torpedo tubes, creating an full beam helideck. In the current configuration it will be quite narrow, while it does not have to be so.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 24th, 2018, 7:54 am
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Nice designs. Keep it up!

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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 28th, 2018, 10:28 pm
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Charguizard wrote: *
I came to read your post because I found these latest frigates smart looking and attractive. I'm glad I did because not only are they pretty and do the drawings show a logical evolutionary path, but the fluff was interesting too. I just wonder why do you use a different window colour from previous ships?
Because in my haste to post it, I missed that key feature. :lol: It has been fixed.
acelanceloet wrote: *
The only thing I would change on this latest design, is make the helideck overhang the torpedo tubes, creating an full beam helideck. In the current configuration it will be quite narrow, while it does not have to be so.
I thought about doing that as well, but I decided against it. I was going for a feel similar to the Tribals or Type 81 frigates that had a very small, cramped, helo deck at the stern for a Wasp. It wasn't particularly practical, or safe for that matter. I'm still tinkering with it to see if I can find a happy medium, but it would be in keeping with the kind of "back of a napkin" nature of these ships that it's helo deck wouldn't be completely thought out.
Hood wrote: *
These are an interesting design.
They are probably a little overloaded and cramped, it feels like your trying to do a lot on a cheap hull.
Two tubes for 'Bidder' seems a bit low, maybe swap them for twins if there is room or additional single tubes.
I've added an additional pair of Bidders to flesh out the torpedo armaments. With regards to their being kind of cramped and overloaded...well, that was the intent :oops: :ugeek: . Perverse as it may sound, I was trying to create a design that was reasonable but also deficient.

Newfoundlanders (and Labradorians) have a predisposed inferiority complex. So my idea was for the RNFN to develop a frigate that was unique and there own, and do everything they needed...even if the end result was not exactly up to the initial expectations. And to persevere and make the best of that design despite the noticeable failings.

With this latest, and I think final, spin of my AU, I've been really trying to show my take on what an independent NL would do with its own fleet...and most of my jot notes and ideas really reflect the kind of half-baked schemes that my province can be known for. And it actually creates a unique challenge of designing ships that are as feasible and realistic (within an AU) as possible, while also trying to make the designs just a little bit off or quirky so as to not make them too good or well designed. It's a little maddening at times to be honest, but I think it gives this AU a unique character. :oops: :oops: :oops:


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