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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 28th, 2018, 11:04 pm
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Hope the rant in my above post makes sense as far as why these designs are my effort to make good-bad designs. I just hope my skills are up to the task. :shock: :? (I recommend reading my last post on the page prior for you to understand what I mean.)

So the general idea I've been developing has been for my fleet to build off the previous frigate class of the Philip Francis Little's onward up to modern times. I've also been taken with the way the Indian Navy ordered their own versions of the Leanders which they then used to develop their own designed Godavari, which then turned into the Brahmaputra's. One design developed into another which then another, all of which kept the same kind kind of feel as they were developed from the same foundation. I've also thought that that was a very reasoned and thoughtful way to develop a design and class, and while it was because of the IN's unique position, I thought I could nick the concept for my fleet.

So, without further ado, my next design for your pleasure and my excoriation.
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As the Cold War progressed, and the Philip Francis Little class of frigates were serving the RNFN, it was already determined that a new design was needed to supplement and replace these somewhat-wanting ships. However, faced again with the prospect of choosing between the available ship classes did not strike the Commodores of the fleet as a grand concept. The Leander's, while fantastic vessels, were expensive and also limited to certain tasks without extensive modifications. The fleet toyed with the idea of ordering modified Garcia's, but negotiations had stalled with the USN over modifying the design. Once again faced with the choice of designing their own ship or purchasing another's, and despite the result of the previous attempt, it was decided to order their own design to be built.

The naval designers quickly faced the problem of how to design a ship that could fit their needs. As the Little's were still only really best suited for escort work, it was decided to build a supplemental and replacement class that could serve this purpose, but also serve as better sub hunter-killers. It was decided that while the "Type 26's" had their failings, they could at least serve as the springboard for a new class. Expanding the hull size dramatically, as well as the engine capacity, weapons, and electronic suite generated what the fleet dubbed the Caen Class Frigates.

(My previous 70's-ish ships were named for WWI battles the Royal NL Regiment fought, this time I'd use WWII battles. History!)

[ img ]
HMNFS Caen, 1972

The three vessels of the class were designed to be far more capable ASW and GP ships to serve both as the lead ships of convoy's or task groups, and also serve as far more capable sub hunters than the Littles, which were more for local anti-sub defence.

The class were upgraded to an Oto Melara 76mm main gun. This was supplemented by the ships' main armaments, the four boxed Ikara ASW missile launchers. These were paired with two triple torpedo tubes, a helo-deck and hangar for a Sea King or Wasp helicopter, and a hull and towed-sonar suite unique to these vessels. Rounded out with a Bofors ASW rocket launcher and two quad Sea Cat launchers, these ships were considered a very formidable ASW ship which were also far more capable of defending themselves than before.

While a bit top-heavy, and prone to rolling, the ships did feature a far more robust and effective engine (and twin screw!) arrangement than gave these ships a more capable 28kt speed.

[ img ]
HMNFS Caen, 1989

The ships were the main vessels of the fleet, and as the Navy moved away from a hi-low concept to a more modern surface combatant-patrol vessel mentality, the Caen's were updated to extend their lifetime and make them more effective weapons platforms. By the end of the Cold War, these vessels had seen some minor modifications made, primarily to the armaments. The Bofors rockets and Sea Cats were scrapped in favour of the Sea Wolf missile. A standard launcher on the bow, coupled with a lightweight quad launcher on the hangar roof, made these ships much more capable in terns of area defence, and extended their usefulness into the 1990's.

[ img ]
HMNFS Caen, 2001

The ships served the fleet faithfully into the 90's and 2000's as they awaited their long sought-after replacements. The Navy continued to make weapons and sensor modifications to keep them relevant with the changing nature of their work. The aft Sea Wolf was replaced with a Phalanx CIWS, and the Ikara's were replaced with two quad Harpoon launchers while the Navy awaited the development of the Narwhal ASW missile. Finally, the Plessey AWS-4 radar was upgraded to the AWS-6, giving the ships a vitally needed 3d radar picture.

The workhorses of the RNFN, these ships were put through their paces throughout their lifetime, and when retired were truly worn out but happy ships. Larger and more comfortable than their predecessors, their tendency to not weather the waters of the North Atlantic the most spectacularly, they were still considered a pleasure to serve aboard and were a note of pride for the sailors who sailed them. Especially those who had previously served on the Little's. These ships really helped the RNFN come into it's own as, with the RNFAF, one of the most capable ASW forces in NATO, they were each given dignified ends. Two were scuttled as dive wrecks off the shores of Newfoundland, while Caen was docked in Bonavista to serve as a museum to the fleet.

HMNFS Caen, F88
HMNFS Ardennes, F86
HMNFS Monte Cassino, F87


Last edited by whitey_nl on June 29th, 2018, 11:59 am, edited 4 times in total.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 28th, 2018, 11:39 pm
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Very beautiful ships!


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thegrumpykestrel
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 29th, 2018, 12:03 am
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I like these alot, very nice!


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Rainmaker
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 29th, 2018, 1:04 am
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Lovely ships with very interesting and well thought out backstories! As a former come-from-away who spent six years in NL (3 on the island and 3 in Labrador) I’ve really enjoyed seeing this scenario evolve over time. Keep up the good work!


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: June 29th, 2018, 8:05 am
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There is nothing wrong with quirky, indeed a flawed ship makes an AU more realistic.

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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 3rd, 2018, 11:51 pm
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Location: Newfoundland and Labrador
Back once again. I've finally finished my last frigate, both for this train of thought and my AU in general, and I can get back to finishing my auxiliary and patrol vessels and finally posting a nice, clean, centralized ship listing...before I get distracted by something shiny again.

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After the Caen's first major upgrade at the end of the Cold War, it was decided at that time to pursue the development of a new vessel to eventually replacement. Having succeeded in designing two large surface vessel classes, the RNFN decided now to again pursue an indigenous design. This time as a matter of pride, less so of necessity. However, changes in governments and naval doctrine resulted in a protracted development program that lasted over ten years before the first ship was laid down. The result of these efforts were the two ships of the John Cabot or Explorer class frigates.

[ img ]
HMNFS Cabot, 2004

The ships of the Cabot class reflected the continued linear development from the Little class through the Caen into the Cabots. This development though was thoroughly an "evolutionary", not "revolutionary", one. While make noticeable improvements over their predecessors, the origins of the design were clearly visible.

The class continued the fleets' focus on ASW/GP duality. The original designs were very much a more modern version of the Caen's, but the long development time resulted in several important changes; namely the enhanced stealthiness compared to the original, mid-90's concepts. The RNFN recycled as much of the armaments from their predecessors as possible. This included the 76mm main gun, the Harpoon launchers, and the Sea Wolf missile (now housed in a 32-cell VLS forward of the bridge). Additional weapons included the addition of the Narwhal ASW missile in the Mk141 launchers. This was paired with two twin-torpedo launchers, an embarked ASW helicopter, and bow and towed-sonar arrays. Rounding out the armaments were two 30mm guns amidships, and a Phalanx CIWS.

While their long development forced the RNFN to incur large upgrade costs for the Caen's, the resulting design was considered to be worth the wait. With a robust engine, but still a little prone to rolls in rough seas, the ships have been faithful servants of the fleet.

[ img ]
HMNFS Corte-Real, 2020 (projected)

The ships are due to undergo their MLU over the next 2 years, first with the Cabot, and then the Corte-Real. Enhancements included the removal of the Sea Wolf missiles on a one-for-one basis with the MBDA Sea Ceptor. The AWS9 radars are to be replaced with the BAE Artisan radar, however problems in procuring the Artisan with BAE has led the RNFN to reach out to Thales about the NS100 or NS200 radars, as these ships do use a Thales-developed combat management system. Two Chemtrail Centurion decoy launchers, and two Atlas EAD torpedo decoy systems are also to be installed; to replace the earlier SeaGnat launchers.

These ships are projected to remain in service to the early 2030's. However, past experiences have shown that the Navy's efforts to make these ships as easy to upgrade as possible may prove useful to the likely-necessary-longevity of these ships.

HMNFS John Cabot, F100
HMNFS Gaspar Corte-Real F101


Feedback is as always helpful in aiding my masochism.


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thegrumpykestrel
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 4th, 2018, 10:43 am
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I thoroughly enjoy this AU and how grounded it seems, and these frigates look like great little additions, very well done!


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 4th, 2018, 12:06 pm
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Hm there are some things that could be done better.

- bow
- front of the bridge-superstructure

I also have the feeling that it should have more volume in the hull, compared to superstructure


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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 5th, 2018, 12:10 pm
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Location: Newfoundland and Labrador
thegrumpykestrel wrote: *
I thoroughly enjoy this AU and how grounded it seems, and these frigates look like great little additions, very well done!
Thanks! Is what I was going for. My previous AU ideas always seemed to fanciful for the country supporting it.
heuhen wrote: *
Hm there are some things that could be done better.

- bow
- front of the bridge-superstructure

I also have the feeling that it should have more volume in the hull, compared to superstructure
I agree. So I increased the drought, and by extension, the volume of the hull. I also redid the bow as I didn't like the previous look. I hope this is has a better feel to it.

[ img ]
HMNFS Cabot, 2004

[ img ]
HMNFS Corte-Real, 2020 (Projected)

I did decide to go with the NS100 radar in lieu of the Artisan, as I felt it would be a more realistic and affordable feel to the Artisan...much as I may prefer it.


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 6th, 2018, 7:42 am
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A nice design. I think the new bows have improved the looks.

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