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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other people's airplanesPosted: February 20th, 2019, 1:54 pm
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Great series, the 3 view pictures are definate treat for all of us.

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other people's airplanesPosted: March 31st, 2019, 7:26 pm
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Hello Again!

Lockheed F-13 Starblazer
The Lockheed F-104 was a great economic success, but its poor reliability record – over 400 crashes with the Luftwaffe and the RCAF alone – left it with such a bad press that planned sales to several Southern European countries in the mid-1960s – Italy, Greece and Turkey – were cancelled under heavy public pressure not to invest in the notorious widowmaker. The second-hand F-102s delivered by the USA were poor substitutes and only a stopgap solution, and late in the decade, the three air forces mentioned were looking for an advanced successor. Dassault was developing the excellent Mirage F.1 at that time, and Lockheed needed to react quickly if they did not want to lose the market to the French. They took the basic Starfighter, lengthened it somewhat and developed a new, significantly larger wing, which was installed higher than previously. The T-shaped tailfin/stabilizer arrangement was replaced with a conventional one, and the J79 engine was replaced by a more powerful and fuel-efficient TF-30 Turbofan. These changes addressed range (almost twice as long as before), maneuverability, low-level handling characteristics, runway length (barely more half of what was needed for a Starfighter) and payload (half again as much as with the F-104). The resulting plane was dubbed CL-1200 Lancer by Lockheed and flew for the first time late in 1969.
[ img ]

Although the Lancer was all the Starfighter could not be, the type still looked too much like the original to arouse much interest. A further improved version with an uprated engine, new air intakes and a larger tailfin, providing further improved maneuverability and more speed (Mach 2,5 was attainable, and the F-104s climb rate was now finally exceeded), was proposed in 1970 and marketed aggressively in Europe, as the USAF was still unimpressed.
[ img ]

By that time, the Italians and Turks were desperate to replace their decrepit F-102s and – after having been bribed appropriately, always a Lockheed specialty – asked Lockheed to install digital avionics and an integrated fire-control system with the latest air intercept radar in the Lancer. This resulted in a reshaped forward fuselage, and the resulting design finally impressed the USAF enough to order two for evaluation purposes in 1971. The plane received the designation F-13 and the new name Starblazer (‘Lancer’ was reserved for the upcoming supersonic bomber project).
[ img ]

One single-seat and one twin-seat machine were delivered to the USAF in 1972 and tested till early 1974; they were rated excellent fighters, but lacking air-to ground capability.
[ img ]

Even before the USAF had received its prototypes, Italy and Turkey early in 1971 ordered 165 and 105 machines, respectively, straight from the drawing board, to be first assembled and then license-produced by Aeritalia. Deliveries started late in 1973; by early 1978, all Italian Starblazers were delivered. The Italians used their F-13s as air superiority fighters only; they could carry four Sidewinder and four Aspide missiles.
[ img ]

The wingtips were usually reserved for Sidewinders; only the Turkish machines could fit the same wingtip tanks as the Starfighter, which however were found to adversely impact maneuverability and handling, and soon retired. The Turkish order of 105 Starblazers was completely delivered in 1977. They also were air superiority fighters pure and simple.
[ img ]

While Aeritalia geared up production of the F-13, more orders came in. Portugal, which never had operated as much as a transonic aircraft type, purchased 35 Starblazers to equip two squadrons in 1973. They also were built by Aeritalia, but unlike the Turkish and Italian machines, the Portuguese had limited air-to-ground capabilities. They were delivered in 1975/6.
[ img ]

In the same year, a major order over 80 Starblazers was placed by Taiwan. They were single-role fighters with US armament. Deliveries commenced 1975 and were complete in 1977.
[ img ]

Together with a Danish order for 55 Starblazers placed in 1974 – replacing the F-100 in Danish service, using Swedish-produced Skyflash missiles and offering improved multirole capabilities including the ability to fire Bullpup missiles and drop guided bombs – the Taiwanese order was enough to make production in the USA worthwhile, which started in 1975. The Danish order was completed in 1978.
[ img ]

The type was also chosen by the South Vietnamese Air Force, which ordered an initial batch of 40 (with full air-to-ground capability) early in 1974, at a time when the demise of South Vietnam was already imminent. Lockheed nevertheless built the planes, which were sold on to Turkey in 1975 after the fall of Saigon, increasing Turkey’s inventory to 145 by 1978 and making the THK the only customer to employ both the air-superiority and the strike version of the Starblazer.
[ img ]

South Korea ordered an initial batch of 50 in 1976, to be delivered whole from the USA; in 1978, another batch of 50 to be assembled in South Korea followed, and a third batch of 60 to be license-produced there was ordered in 1980. Deliveries started in 1978 and were complete in 1983. All South Korean Starblazers were pure fighters; unlike Denmark and Portugal, the ROKAF had enough Phantoms and F-5s for the strike role and used the Starblazer only in the role it was best at.
[ img ]

Pakistan bought 120 US-built air-superiority Starblazers in two batches in 1977 and 1981, deliveries being complete in 1984. The last Pakistani Starblazer was the last-ever machine of this type to be delivered to a customer.
[ img ]

Production at Lockheed, Alitalia and KAI yielded a total of 760 F-13s. Further marketing efforts were made, but Germany, Spain, Belgium and Greece preferred Mirages (Germany F.8, the other three nations F.1), while Koko and Iran ordered F-14s. The F-13 took part in the 1974 Fighter competition for the USAF together with the F-16, the F-17, the Vought V-1600 and a Boeing project, but finished fourth out of five competitors. Although the USAF wanted the F-16, procurement was deferred till 1978 because the government insisted on a joint Air Force/Navy project and the Navy insisted on two engines, which only the F-17 offered, which was eventually developed into the F/A-18 for both services. After the land version of that plane was sold to Canada, Spain, the Netherlands and Norway, and Japan ordered the F-15, Lockheed ceased to market the F-13 in 1985.

Although sales remained behind expectations, the F-13 was a popular plane with its users, offering low operating cost and an excellent availability rate, requiring little maintenance. The TF-30 was however no ideal engine for dogfights, as it reacted quirky to abrupt changes of throttle, and safety limitations were imposed which limited their performance envelope, which in theory was equal to that of the F-15. Proposals to exchange the TF-30 for a F-101 or F-110 were not followed through for budget reasons. During NATO exercises, the F-13 was usually outflown by the F-15, the Tempest, the Mirage F.8 and the Mirage 2000; it was however a superior dogfighter compared to the F-14, the F-18, the Hurricane, the Mirage F.1 and the F-4.

During their service lives, the F-13 received only few modernizations; externally they remained mostly unchanged. Most machines received at least one comprehensive avionics and electronics upgrade including a new radar and a glass cockpit; they also had their engines modified or replaced by an improved version of the TF-30, which however never satisfactorily addressed the flameout issues during dogfights. As new armament options became available, they were retrofitted to fire AMRAAM or Idra BVRAAMS, Maverick ASMs, and TV-, laser- or GPS-guided bombs.

The Italian Air Force employed the F-13 for an average of 27 years; between 1999 and 2006, they were replaced by JF-90s (which were dubbed C-90 Strale by the AMI).
[ img ]

The Turkish Air Force retired the last F-13 in 2010 after an exceptionally long average service life of 32 years; replacement with JF-90s commenced in 2004.[ img ]

The Portuguese F-13s served even longer; at nearly 40 years, they hold the record among F-13 users, because Portugal was in a deep financial crisis during most of the 2000s and could not afford a replacement. As late as 2001, two dozen used Italian machines were acquired to be cannibalized to keep the decrepit F-13s aloft. The Portuguese finally accepted a lower performance airplane to succeed the Starblazer and acquired the Mako C from 2012, with the last F-13 retired in 2015.
[ img ]

The Taiwanese replaced the F-13 with Israeli-built F-21 Lavis from 2000; financial restrictions made for a low annual delivery rate, and the last F-13 was retired in 2010.
[ img ]

The Danes flew the Starblazer till 2006; replacement with JF-90 commenced in 2003.
[ img ]

The ROKAF started to retire its F-13s in 1997 already, after 18 years of service, in favour of the F-21 Lion (KAI license-built).
[ img ]

40 Ex-ROKAF machines were delivered to the Royal Thai Air Force in 2000/2001 after a thorough refurbishment job, with another 20 airframes donated for free to be cannibalized. 35 remain in service as of 2019, but an invitation to tender a replacement has already been issued in 2016.
[ img ]

The Pakistani Air Force also racked up an impressively long service record; they acquired 30 used ROKAF airframes in 2002 for cannibalization. As of 2019, 70 F-13 remain in service, upgraded with the latest Chinese AAMs, but the type is progressively being replaced by Chengdu J-10s since 2014, with the last machines scheduled for retirement in 2022.
[ img ]

Greetings
GD


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Morten812
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other people's airplanesPosted: March 31st, 2019, 8:20 pm
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Nice to see a Danish version

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pegasus206
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other people's airplanesPosted: March 31st, 2019, 9:35 pm
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again a great piece of your work , Always love to see this and your other Au

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Biancini1995
Post subject: Re: Nuclear attack sub challengePosted: April 1st, 2019, 3:57 am
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Garlicdesign wrote: *
Hi all!

Lemuria - I needed a sufficiently scary enemy for the 'good guys' of the Thiariaverse; I think the poor Brazilians have been my punching ball long enough.
I saw your work with the Thiariaverse and its a very good work indeed but as a Brazilian I think you didn't put much "spicy" in the Brazilian side.

What I mean with that?

I remember long time ago,I think with another brilliant work with the Thiaria FD Scale aircraft on your story description that Brazil on the 2000s the president on power was Luis Inacio Lula da Silva he was a left president on our universe,he was a president that didn't gave attention to the military.

Its possible to heat even more things for Thiaria if you consider Brazil went to a more agressive and belic route since it was a Empire when it gained independence from Portugal,it have a massive territory,more population,more resources,I personally think it could do an formidable adversary if you consider that we don't went to a more passive route like Brazil on our real world.

But please dont consider that I don't like your way,you are the master of your own story and I love passing time reading it and admiring your drawings :)

Oh yes I'm sure was missing in the forums but I'm still here in the shadows seeing ahahaha

Maybe I'll log in more often when things calm on my side,maybe even try to redraw ships again ahahaha

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other people's airplanesPosted: April 1st, 2019, 8:01 am
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Superb work, the colour schemes are lovely and the backstory is great too. It really shows what could have been done with the Lancer had development continued.

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Tempest
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other people's airplanesPosted: April 1st, 2019, 8:54 pm
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Very nice drawings.

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other people's airplanesPosted: December 5th, 2019, 9:36 pm
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Hello Again!

No risk, no fun: Export versions of the Supermarine Scimitar

In the mid-fifties, the upcoming Supermarine Scimitar naval fighter was considered a hot rod with a great future. It attracted foreign interest even before it was introduced into the RN. The Scimitar was designed to operate from Centaur-class carriers, of which eight had been completed between 1948 and 1955; four were commissioned into the RN (Centaur, Albion, Bulwark and Hermes), one was transferred to the Recherchean Navy (Recherche ex-Arrogant), one to the Indian Navy (Viraat ex-Monmouth), one to the Australian Navy (Australia ex-Polyphemus) and one to the Canadian Navy (Acadia ex-Elephant). In addition, four ships of an enlargened type, fifteen meters longer and with an 8° angled deck, two deck-edge lifts and two twenty-ton catapults built into the design from the beginning, were built on Recherchean Yards between 1955 and 1964, two of which were commissioned by the Recherchean Navy (Eyre in 1961 and Balladonia in 1963), one by the Australian Navy (Canberra in 1962) and one by the Indian Navy (Vishal in 1964). For this assortment of light carriers, the Scimitar was widely considered perfect. The RN commissioned 74 Scimitars in 1957 and 1958 and soon learned the type was really too large and heavy for Centaur-class ships, losing two dozens in landing accidents within five years; another dozen was lost due to mechanical malfunctions associated with the leaky hydraulic system. By the time Scimitar’s unreliability and dangerous handling during take-off and landing had become apparent, several foreign orders had already come in.

The first customer was the West German Navy, of all people, who had acquired 60 used Sea Hawks in 1955 to equip a first naval aviation strike fighter wing. They were very content with the handy and reliable, but obsolescent Sea Hawk, and for the second naval strike wing to be formed, they were willing to buy British again, but this time high-end technology. Sixty were ordered in 1958 and delivered in 1959/60; the first 24 had originally been ordered by the RN.
[ img ]
Operating the Scimitar from land bases only, the Germans experienced no problems with getting them into the air and back to the ground, and the accident rate was much lower than with the RN. The type was not popular with ground personnel nevertheless, due to excessive maintenance requirements. The pilots liked Scimitar’s excellent low altitude flight characteristics, but detested the low availability rate, resulting in few flying hours. Local fixes to the hydraulic system eased the leakage issue, but never really solved it. In 1964, the Scimitar was wired to employ French AS.20 missiles with command guidance to use against enemy shipping. The Germans never really warmed to Scimitar and replaced them after ten years in service with Breguet Orfraies; by 1971, all German Scimitars were retired.

Simultaneously, the Royal Australian Navy ordered thirty Scimitars in 1959, which were delivered 1961/2.
[ img ]
They featured a reworked hydraulic system, with leakage significantly reduced compared with British and German Scimitars, and although their performance envelope was the same, the Australians employed them from Canberra’s larger deck, which did much to improve their safety record. Canberra’s more powerful catapults also allowed them to launch a fully loaded Scimitar with all three wheels on deck. On Australia, however, the same problems as on the small British carriers arose, resulting in ten losses within as many years. Australian Scimitars were very active during the Vietnam war; both Australian flattops repeatedly operated off the Vietnamese coast, their Scimitars striking ground targets. Attrition was considerable; there were nine combat losses in addition to the accidents mentioned above, and the eleven remaining Scimitars were replaced by 35 A-4 Skyhawks in 1972.

After 164 Scimitar F.1 had been delivered and proven to be difficult beasts, Vickers tried to improve upon the design, tapping its growth potential and tackling its reliability troubles. Various complex redesigns, including a two-seat all-weather strike fighter (Type 565) and a mixed-power Mach 2 interceptor (Type 576), were rejected in favour of an austere upgrade. The resulting Type 568 featured a refined fuselage containing two reheated RR Avon 210R engines (50/65 kN thrust); the heat generated by them necessitated strengthening the heat-proof stainless steel plating aft. The air intakes now had variable geometry and were a little larger, and the area-ruled shape of the fuselage was more pronounced. The outer wings were reworked aerodynamically and somewhat thinner; wing fuel capacity was retained. The nose was longer and more pointed, with the latest navigation system and an AI.23 Airpass radar, modified to include illuminating capability for SARH missiles. All avionics located aft of the cockpit in the standard Scimitar were moved forward, balancing the added weight of afterburners and heat-proof plating aft and creating room for more inboard fuel tanks. Finally, the forward landing gear was lengthened and the hydraulic and fuel system thoroughly reworked. The stronger engines with regulated airflow eliminated the power drop experienced by the early Scimitars at altitudes above 7500 meters. Ceiling increased to 15.500 meters, and the full power range was now available at any height. Low-level speed approached Mach 1 at 1.200 kph, while at 10.000 meters, the improved Scimitar was capable of 1.700 kph (Mach 1,6) due to the added power and the improved aerodynamics of nose, wing and center fuselage. The basic model’s good handling and maneuverability was retained, at all altitudes. Payload increased to 3.500 kg, and two additional hard points below the inner wings were added. They could carry the same missile armament (four Firestreak or Red Top) as Sea Vixen at half again the speed, and as a bonus, two of the four 30mm Aden cannon were retained. Vickers dubbed the Type 568 Super Scimitar; first flight of the improved version was on March 4th, 1961.
[ img ]
At that time, Super Scimitar was the third operational supersonic carrier fighter worldwide; despite some spectacular displays by the prototype, the RN was not thrilled, what with the standard Scimitar making life miserable for them.

The Recherchean Navy however showed keen interest and tested the Super Scimitar against the F-8 Crusader and the Sea Vixen, after a domestic supersonic carrier fighter had failed to emerge within the timeframe set. The Sea Vixen dropped out early due to a horrible accident involving birdstrike and a failure of the WSO’s ejector seat, and the F-8, while faster, was judged inferior to Super Scimitar due to its inability to fire SARH missiles. Super Scimitar was selected for license production in 1962, and 72 machines were delivered in 1963 and 1964.
[ img ]
Recherchean Super Scimitars were equipped with two additional hard points under the hull for Sidewinder missiles; their main armament comprised four Sparrows under the wings. The Recherchean Navy equipped three fifteen-ship operational squadrons and one ten-ship OCU with the type and successfully employed it from the carriers Balladonia and Eyre, whose slightly larger size (compared with the Centaur-class) made all the difference in terms of take-off and landing safety. They repeatedly came to blows with Lemurian aircraft during the crises of 1964, 1967 and 1976, scoring a kill quote of 29 to 5. Recherche’s Super Scimitars remained in service for a quarter century; 13 were lost. Two squadrons transferred to the new large carrier Recherche in 1984; the Super Scimitar eventually was replaced by brand-new HAe Tempest FRS.2 fighters from 1986. The last machines were de-commissioned in 1988.

The successful introduction in Recherchean Service rekindled British interest, and in 1964, a follow-on order for 40 Super Scimitars was issued. This decision was highly controversial, because Scimitar’s basic concept was already ten years old and the type was much inferior to the US F-4 which the RN would have preferred; By introducing the Super Scimitar as an interim solution, the Sea Vixen replacement was pushed into the future far enough for the domestic British Sea Hurricane project to become available, to great benefit for Britain’s aviation industry as a whole. The forty RN Super Scimitars, delivered 1965, lacked the hull pylons and were armed with four Red Tops, usually two with IR and two with SARH guidance.
[ img ]
Three squadrons were formed, and one each was deployed to the carriers Gibraltar, Ark Royal and Eagle. Sea Hurricane was introduced from 1971 on Gibraltar, and the number of Super Scimitar squadrons was cut to two. By 1976, British Super Scimitars were retired from carrier service, when all six Sea Hurricane squadrons were operational. Twelve hulls each were handed to Australia and India to replace attrition of the respective nation’s Super Scimitar fleets.

India by 1964 had two carriers of (more or less) sufficient size for the Scimitar; the Indians therefore also chose the Super Scimitar as their carrierborne interceptor that year. Thirty-two were delivered in 1966/7 to equip two squadrons. They carried the same armament as their British pendants, introducing the Red Top missile into Indian service.
[ img ]
They featured prominently in the 1971 war against Pakistan, effectively sealing off Pakistani forces in Bangla Desh from all supplies and downing a total of 19 enemy planes; they did however suffer fifteen losses themselves, half of them accidents, all of the latter on Viraat. Ten ex-British machines were taken over in 1976 to bring their two squadrons back to strength. They served till replaced with MiG-23Ks from 1984.

The final Super Scimitar employer was the Royal Australian Navy, together with the RN the only nation to use both the basic variant and the Super Scimitar. Thirty Super Scimitars were delivered in 1967/8. They were produced by Hale of Recherche as kits and assembled in Australia.
[ img ]
Both Australian flattops featured mixed air groups of standard and Super Scimitars till 1972, when the standard Scimitars were replaced with Skyhawks. The Australian Super Scimitars saw action over Vietnam and repeatedly over Indonesian waters; like their Recherchean pendants, they were armed with Sparrow and Sidewinder missiles. They remained in service for twenty years till replaced with F/A-18Cs in 1987/8.

Sorry for the cultural appropriation, Rowdy36, but I really couldn’t resist. If you feel offended, I’ll of course edit the Recherchean version out of the post.

Greetings
GD


Last edited by Garlicdesign on December 6th, 2019, 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other people's airplanesPosted: December 6th, 2019, 3:11 am
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Nice work with the Scimitar GD and as usual wonderful backup story, but there is a small mistake. Tony Butler in his -British Secret Projects Fighters says that the Scimitar Type 576 would have twin RB.146 Avon with 58.8kN and twin Spectre rockets of 44.4kN each or twin reheated Avon with 69.8kN thust. If we apply the numbers from real life Avon RB.146 Mk.301R, this variant of Avon would reach 76,46kN and this is very plausible. So, you need to edit thrust with 58.8kN/76,46kN.


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other people's airplanesPosted: December 6th, 2019, 8:59 am
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These are fantastic! Loving them all and this has made my day. The AU Super Scimitar looks a very plausible upgrade too.

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