[Post Reply] [*]  Page 1 of 1  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
whitey_nl
Post subject: Commonwealth Republic of NewfoundlandPosted: July 10th, 2019, 1:12 am
Offline
Posts: 56
Joined: March 6th, 2011, 5:37 pm
Location: Newfoundland and Labrador
Howdy. Got the itch to create again, but wanted to do a slightly different tack from my last AU. Same location, but a slight tweek on the concept of a Newfoundland AU. This time, a responsible government but with a more American tilt than British, like the last. Similar is some respects to post-World War II Australia.

Anyway, let's see how she goes. :D

==========================================================================================================================
Commonwealth Republic of Newfoundland
[ img ]

National Background

History

Originally inhabited by indigenous First Nations such as the Beothuk and Dorset peoples, it was first 'discovered' by the Vikings around 1000 AD, and then rediscovered by explorer John Cabot in 1497. Declared a colony for England by Sir Humphrey Gilbert in 1583, and declared a full colony in 1610.

The colony of Newfoundland grew slowly, being a proprietary and fishing colony, it took several centuries before large scale communities developed. Starting with the beginning of the industrial age that the population really started to grow and expand. As tensions increased in the United Kingdom developed due to poverty and famine, the Colonial Office lifted the previously stringent measures preventing immigration. By the mid 19th Century, the colonial population was granted self-government, and in 1910 was declared a full dominion of equal status to others such as Canada and New Zealand.

Rendered destitute as a result of the crippling war debt assumed during WWI, and a lack of British support in forgiving the debt, Newfoundland fell into a commission of government ruled from London. After the Second World War, two referendums were held. By a tight margin, responsible government won over confederation with Canada. Lead by politicians like Chesley Crosbie, Newfoundland quickly sought out Economic Union with the United States. A hybrid-free trade-customs union, it granted Newfoundland unique economic liberties with the United States, in return for protracted leases of existing military bases in Newfoundland and Labrador. By the end of the 20th Century, Newfoundland quickly became an important trade area, as its' favourable trade agreements with the United States meant many countries used Newfoundland as point-of-entry to circumvent more expensive tariffs or import duties.

Governance

Newfoundland is a Commonwealth republic that uses a parliamentary system of government with a head-of-state elected by Parliament.

Newfoundland uses a unicameral parliament, consisting of the House of Assembly, with the three major political parties – the United Party, Labour Party, and Conservative Party – holding the majority of the seats.

Foreign Relations

Newfoundland enjoys excellent relations with all nations within the Anglosphere - especially Canada, the United States, and the United Kingdom. It was a founding member of the United Nations, an active member of the Commonwealth of Nations, and a founding member of NATO and NORAD. Newfoundland is striving to achieve better relations with the nations outside North America and Europe and is actively trying to improve relations with South American nations; and much of its foreign aid goes to the countries to its immediate south. Newfoundland has also established free trade agreements with Australia, New Zealand, and is a signatory to NAFTA.

Geography, Population, and Climate

The nation is a combination of the islands of Newfoundland, comprising the main island and over 100 smaller islands scattered around its coast; and the "big land" of Labrador on the mainland of North America. With a total area of 405,212 square kilometres, Newfoundland and Labrador is the 60th largest nation on earth in terms of landmass. Newfoundland and Labrador has a population as of its last census in 2009 of 1,437,212 with an estimation in 2014 of 1,440,000. Of the above, approximately 1,200,000 reside on the island, with the remainder residing in Labrador. The majority of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are of Anglo-Irish or French descent, with the largest minorities being First Nations, Indo-Pakistani, and Saharan Africans.

Newfoundland Navy

Given the strategic location of Newfoundland in the North Atlantic, it played a crucial part of the NATO and United States actions to protect against Soviet encroachment. In addition to the US Naval presence in its waters, Newfoundland was an active contributor to the defense of the North Atlantic. But by the late 1960's, Newfoundland's fleet of upgraded WWII era DE's. While offered new and used US naval DEs (later labelled Frigates), Newfoundland couldn't justify the manpower requirements or expense, even with generous US aid. The admirals of the fleet and the Defence department sought a local designed ship. The end result was the Cabot class.

John Cabot Class Frigates
[ img ]
NNS John Cabot, 1972

Designed as a medium escort, these ships were intended to patrol the waters in and around Newfoundland and the western Atlantic, and also serve as fleet and convoy escorts. Given an almost exclusive anti-submarine focus, they were built to weather the demanding North Atlantic patrols and be well outfitted to do so, but were also built with as many corners cut to reduce the size of the crew wherever possible.

Given their heavy ASW focus, the ships sensors and armaments were primarily centred on these capabilities. They were fitted with a uniquely Newfoundland and American designed hull mounted sonar developed by GE/Marconi of Newfoundland and a towed sonar array. To hunt submarines, they were given a Bofors anti-submarine mortar system along with two triple-torpedo launchers. The ships each had a helipad capable of supporting and refueling a helicopter, but did not carry a hangar to reduce weight and manpower requirements.

However a problem was flagged at multiple levels both within, and outside, the Navy due to the almost singular focus on anti-submarine weapons. Aside from a 76mm main gun, the ships were originally designed to have no organic anti-air weapons, and in fact no secondary arms at all. it took months of lobbying before it was agreed to salvage twin 40mm Bofors mountings from retired and retiring ships to be fitted to the stern astride the towed array, to provide at least a minimal anti-air capability.

However, in their intended role, and coupled with their agility and good sea-keeping, the ships were superb ASW escorts and were well regarded by both their crews, and those of visiting and stationed American personnel at the shared naval bases in Argentia and Port au Port.

[ img ]
NNS Cabot, 1986

As the ships continued their service, the chorus of voices demanding upgrades be made to improve their defences against airborne threats grew louder and more pronounced. As well, changes in technologies meant that the ships original anti-submarine arms quickly became ineffectual against improving Soviet submarine technology. Several upgrades were made to overcome these changes, throughout the mid-1980's.

The biggest change was the replacement of the Bofors ASW mortar with the unique Newfoundland-created ASW rocket system, the Speargun rocket launcher. Envisioned as a cross between a mortar system and a rocket-delivered torpedoes like ASROC, the Speargun could fire single or salvo light projectiles at a suspected submarine position. Rockets would carry the weapons into the target area, and the weapons would sink under their own weight to the depth of the target. Compressed air would be used for the weapons to guide the weapons in the terminal stage onto their targets. Lighter in weight than ASROC, and fundamentally more economical, it was envisioned as a cheap but effective stand-off weapon for smaller navies that couldn't afford full scale systems like ASROC or Ikara.

Another substantive upgrade was the addition of a dual-RIM 7 Sea Sparrow launcher on the stern above the helicopter pad to provide a very limited close-range anti-air capability. There were many weaknesses of this, including having to be crew served for a reload, and using the same director as the main gun, meaning the systems could not be used independently. But it was still considered at least a functional system, as opposed to the 40mm Bofors they replaced.

The ships were well regarded by their crews. Sometimes cramped, especially late in service in the early 2000s as more and more upgrades were made to keep them in service, they were still beloved by their crews and logged thousands of nautical miles of service and were often seen working with American and Canadian task groups, including during the Persian Gulf War. Retired with distinction after their replacements entered service, they were considered the example of Newfoundland shipbuilding and design.

NNS John Cabot
NNS Leif Erickson
NNS Jacques Cartier
NNS Gaspar Corte-Real


I have to say, I like this design. I feel I might have rushed a few elements of it, and may go back and tweak a few of them, but I'm mostly content with the design. Any and all feedback welcome though. :!:


Last edited by whitey_nl on July 10th, 2019, 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
[Profile] [Quote]
TJW
Post subject: Re: Commonwealth Republic of NewfoundlandPosted: July 10th, 2019, 1:26 am
Offline
Posts: 26
Joined: November 26th, 2018, 12:16 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Whitey, your last Newfoundland AU was one of the things that inspired me to get started on mine. So I'm looking forward to this one.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
erik_t
Post subject: Re: Commonwealth Republic of NewfoundlandPosted: July 10th, 2019, 2:03 am
Offline
Posts: 2734
Joined: July 26th, 2010, 11:38 pm
Location: Midwest US
Certainly well-drawn and attractive, and generally sensible I think. Three ASW thoughts. First, the little "doors" below the pilothouse are blow-out plates for an ASROC magazine. Since you have no ASROC forward, these are inappropriate ;). From a sensor point of view, I'd expect a (more modern version of) HF/DF to be more important than the current UHF/VHF DF you have on the topmast. Finally, I'd consider the surface search radar to be more mission-critical than SPS-40, and I'd work to invert their positions (this will require a mast redesign).

Two other minor nitpicks: there is a missing row of gray pixels on the O-1 level aft of the 76mm. Also, the liferaft containers you're using are way oversized, and I'd shrink them if I were you. Although I'm not sure if this type was even available in 1972 -- consult my TyBeach for what was available to the USN at the time (I don't know what the Commonwealth navies were using).


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Commonwealth Republic of NewfoundlandPosted: July 10th, 2019, 11:02 am
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 7187
Joined: July 28th, 2010, 12:25 pm
Location: the netherlands
Very nice!
I have some very minor comments though:
- the bofors depth charge launcher has 2 major disadvantages on that location: it's magazine cannot be put below the waterline because the machinery is there (I think?) and I think the mast is somewhat blocking it's field of fire. I think it fires at 40-50 degrees up, so moving it slightly aft might solve the issue, but I really would recommend putting it on the bow.
- I would recommend a blast shield behind the depth charge launcher.
- The ZW-06 is somewhat blocked by the WM egg or the SPG-60
- I wonder what the role is of the 76mm, that is an excellent AA weapon and very much not an ASW weapon right?
- I would have to check this, but I don't think the SPG-60 was ever used 'on it's own' without an SPQ-9 or an WM 'egg' on the ship.
- On most occasions, I would expect the ZW surface search radar higher up then the SPS-40 to have an as big as possible radar horizon.
- The huge overhanging bow is a bit strange, were the ships designed to be able to get bow sonars at some point?
- I'm curious, how does the speargun get reloaded?
- I think the aft liferafts would be better placed a bit higher up and the forward ones a bit lower. The ideal spot is where you can easily drop them in the water (the forward ones drop on the gun deck there) but where in bad conditions, they cannot be swept away.
- I would put the TT slightly more aft, better separation of your weapons and easier to reload both it and the helicopters from the same magazine and elevator.

But these are all minor and most are suggestions, not real needs. Excellent ship, she looks more real then some real world designs ;)

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
erik_t
Post subject: Re: Commonwealth Republic of NewfoundlandPosted: July 10th, 2019, 1:24 pm
Offline
Posts: 2734
Joined: July 26th, 2010, 11:38 pm
Location: Midwest US
Off the top of my head I can't think of any ships built with SPG-60 alone, but designers frequently positioned SPG-60 and SPQ-9 so that one covered a bow arc and the other a stern arc. Some never-built sketches show only one or the other. Certainly it would have been possible to only include SPG-60.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Commonwealth Republic of NewfoundlandPosted: July 14th, 2019, 11:34 pm
Offline
Posts: 56
Joined: March 6th, 2011, 5:37 pm
Location: Newfoundland and Labrador
Okay, back again. I've made some modifications both to the design of the ship, and the drawings themselves. Erik_t, I appreciate you pointing out some of the missed colouring and pixels. This is what I call "over-eager syndrome", where I'm so excited to post that I don't do a basic review and edit before posting :oops: :oops: :oops:. So that is at least fixed.

[ img ]
NNS John Cabot, 1972

So in response to some of the questions posed, and the functionality of my layout, I've re-designed the weapons fit to make a bit more sense on the compact hull. I've moved the 76mm to the stern-amidships, and elevated a la the OHPs. It makes more sense, as it free's up a lot of space on the bow, and also gives it better firing arcs. To Ace's question, the 76mm serves as the main AA gun and because these are still intended to serve as fleet escorts, also are to be used as a general fire-support weapon. I've moved the Bofors to the bow to give it a better arc of fire, and to not interfere with the machinery spaces...because damn that magazine and hoist takes up some space. Might as well be a 16-inch gun. :roll:

I've also swapped out the radars completely for a completely Dutch build but with what I think are more practical radars. Again, as these are the main surface combatants of the fleet, they carry a more robust radar set than they may need, but this is primarily to ensure that they have potential "eyes" on a peril, even if they don't have the weaponry to engage them at range. And no 'egg', just an M45 for gun control for the 76.

And lastly I re-arranged the life rafts so they actually hit the water, and not the deck. :lol:

[ img ]
NNS John Cabot, 1997

And in the case of the modernized version, I did a complete re-work of both the radars and the weapons fit. Kyboshed the works of it. First, I kept the Dutch radars with an improved DA-08, and two STIRs. (Only eggs on this ship is in the galley.) It also is an easy solution to the problem of one fire-control radar for multiple weapons. By freeing up the bow, I'm able to add a full Sea Sparrow launcher. I also have retained the Speargun weapon, but I worried that the magazine system for it (which was the loading method on V.1) would be too cumbersome. So instead I opted for two-twin boxed launchers behind the Sea Sparrow. While removing the arc-of-fire that a trainable launcher has, it still provides a good standoff capability, and retains that "forward-firing" feel of the earlier ASW weapons it replaces.

The movement of the 76 really gives these ships the ability to be much more of a GP feel later in life, and I'm much happier, even if I'm still going to pretty-up that raised platform for the Bofors.

Again, anymore feedback is welcome. I want to make sure I've got these nailed (or as close as I can manage ;) before I move on.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Commonwealth Republic of NewfoundlandPosted: July 15th, 2019, 10:49 am
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 7187
Joined: July 28th, 2010, 12:25 pm
Location: the netherlands
Excellent.
Minor comment: I would put the aft liferafts a bit higher still, on a rack above the deck, so they are inboard but roll outboard when let loose. Check the spruance class for example how they did that. Right now the liferafts aft look a bit vulnerable when mooring.

I am also not entirely certain if the DA radar on the first drawing can rotate properly

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Blackbuck
Post subject: Re: Commonwealth Republic of NewfoundlandPosted: July 15th, 2019, 10:57 am
Offline
Posts: 2694
Joined: July 27th, 2010, 9:15 am
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom
Contact: Facebook
Other than the outdated parts I like them. I'd perhaps swap the ZW-06 and DA-02 over though.

_________________
AU Projects: | Federal Monarchy of Tír Glas| Other Ivernic Nations | Artemis Group |
Blood and Fire


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Display: Sort by: Direction:
[Post Reply]  Page 1 of 1  [ 8 posts ]  Return to “Alternate Universe Designs”

Jump to: 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


The team | Delete all board cookies | All times are UTC


cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]