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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 9th, 2018, 6:16 pm
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Hi everyone and thank you all!

Especially Odysseus, the oblique Exocet installation really won't work. Installed them athwartships instead.

Looking forward to more entries!

Greetings
GD


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Aiseus
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 10th, 2018, 5:49 am
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My humble addition has come! Though I can't even come close to the designs that have come prior, I'm nonetheless very proud of my work, more so than any other work I've so far produced.

Do note: The dates on the drawings are the years of the designs in my particular AU. I will be placing the equivalent dates to our world in the description, in parenthesis.

The Küsten II-class destroyers were a Morsignian destroyer design dating to (1946), four years before the official end of the Great War. As was standard for Commonwealth destroyers, she was named after a mountain, Mount Küsten. The destroyer class inherited the (II) in its name from the fact that a previous destroyer escort, the Küsten, had been named for the lake at the foot of the mountain which shared its name.

Displacement: 2,900 tons normal, 2,975 full load
Length: 111 meters
Beam: 11.6 meters
Draft: 4.2 meters
Maximum speed and SHP: 38 knots on 66,000 HP
Range: 1500 km at 15 knots

The Küsten-class, known to Sudovians as the Kaszicze-class, was a late war destroyer of the Morsignian Navy. The end result of several years of doctrinal development, the Küsten was the final class of destroyer built before the demobilization of the Morsignian Navy came into force. With the end of the Great War in sight and the dissolution of the Diotan Commonwealth all but imminent, she was designed to fight their former allies Aufzenians in the local waters of the Sea of Kolden as opposed to fighting in the distant waters off Hymuth as previous destroyers had been. Her armament as built, was designed around three V4 double turrets with the reliable and effective TR125s. An effective dual purpose platform, these guns had been in use for over ten years, and when placed in the newly developed V4 turret, their turn and elevation rate was increased further. Their rate of fire, with the use of an autoloader being implemented on this destroyer class, was able to reach a maximum of 15 rounds a minute on trials. As well as this, the Küstens were the first Morsignian destroyers to use a fully standardized light anti-aircraft caliber, the Aufzenian designed Lirovia 37 mm anti-aircraft guns. The 20 mm Lirovia cannons which had been commonplace for almost the entire war were nearing the end of their effective service life, and were eliminated, and as well as this, it meant that a single light AA fire director could be used. In total, she had 20 37 mm barrels, with two quadruple mounts and 6 double mounts. In line with late-war Morsignian destroyer design, her torpedo armament was weak, with only a single quadruple tube carrying 600 mm torpedoes amidships. Her radar was standard for Commonwealth destroyers of the time, with Aufzenian built surface search radar ObE29 and Morsignian designed air search radar FuE3 on the mast. As well as this, she retained mana-charge detectors, the utility of which had been debated among the Morsignian High Command with the Mage's Union Navy Mage Corps all but eliminated as a serious threat. In her bow was an indigenous sonar array, the UW12, which had been specifically designed to counter Aufzenian submarines using the insider information from three decades working together. Her anti-submarine weaponry consisted of two racks of depth charges located on the rear of the ship. This loadout would remain throughout demobilization until the end of the war.

Riegel, a ship of the Küsten II-class, as she appeared upon the end of the Great War in (1950). Commonwealth destroyer number 807. (The poor relations between Aufzen and Morsig are evident by the hastily painted Morsignian flag on the side of the ship, as Morsignian ships would often refuse to work alongside Aufzenian ships as the war drew down and it became necessary to discern friends from "enemies.")
[ img ]

After the war ended in (1950), the Navy became embroiled in a corruption scandal which would see its funding slashed as a result. With the budget already strained after the demobilization from (1946-1950), the massively expanded Morsignian Navy, intended to counter Aufzenian supremacy in the Sea of Kolden, found itself unable to build new ships to replace the aging ships built during the expansion program undertaken from (1941-1945). As such, it was forced to make do with refurbishing older ships with new weaponry. However, even this proved to be difficult with the funding they had, so modifications were often minor. Such is the case with the Küsten IIs, one of the final classes of destroyer built before the end of hostilities in (1950). Her machinery was untouched, but her armament saw some changes. Her TR125 V4s were replaced with the first indigenously designed Morsignian dual-purpose weapons of the post-war, the BK37, with three guns in three single turrets. Though sharing the same caliber as the TR125s, at 125 mm, these guns were able to manage 35 rounds per minute and had a far faster muzzle velocity than their predecessor. The rear turret had to be placed atop a modified superstructure, though, as there was not enough space for the magazine under where the former turret had sat. Her radar suite saw advancements as well, with her surface and air search radars being replaced with the Morsignian designed GS1 and MFu600 respectively. Her mana-detectors were also removed in this modernization. Her 37 mm quadruple mounts were replaced with fully enclosed mounts with built in directors, while her double mounts were left untouched with the same wartime fire director. Her torpedo tubes, after some debate, were left onboard, though the anti-ship torpedoes which had been mounted were replaced with an anti-submarine variant (notice the gold tip, indicating an anti-submarine role). Her sonar was also left untouched, with Morsignian engineers struggling to improve on the current sonar, the UW12.

Bircher, another Küsten II-class vessel as she appeared in (1955). Morsignian Imperial Navy destroyer (former Commonwealth destroyer) number 811. These vessels were woefully unprepared for the advancement of Aufzenian destroyers, with the top secret compact missile program coming very close to bearing fruit in Aufzen completely unbeknownst to Morsignian engineers. Despite their improvements, they were vastly behind the curve.
[ img ]

Edited to fix redundant wording and an upside-down flag. Second edit, That Program Which Shall Not Be Named gave me 108,000 SHP to make a 2,900 ton ship go 38 knots. Shimakaze can go 40.9 knots on 75,000 HP, so I reduced the number to something more reasonable.

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Worklist: 1. Heavy Cruiser Graizenstadt (~65% done) 2. Battleship Welkin (~65% done) ?. Destroyer Serigara (~30% done)


Last edited by Aiseus on August 12th, 2018, 4:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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1143M
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 10th, 2018, 2:54 pm
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Emmmmm……
It looks disproportionately,big turrets,big chimneys,small hull.

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Aiseus
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 10th, 2018, 3:27 pm
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1143M wrote: *
Emmmmm……
It looks disproportionately,big turrets,big chimneys,small hull.
Hmm, I tried my best to get exact measurements, so perhaps that's a conversion issue... I modeled my turrets off real equipment and tried to compare how my design looked versus real ships, but perhaps I got something wrong. I concede that the funnels are large though, looking at them again.

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Worklist: 1. Heavy Cruiser Graizenstadt (~65% done) 2. Battleship Welkin (~65% done) ?. Destroyer Serigara (~30% done)


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 11th, 2018, 8:42 am
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To an extent I agree with 1143M, though I think he didn't mean that the turrets are too big themselves (they seem right size, more or less, compared for example with Mk42 5"/54 calibre guns), but rather too big - and too many of them - compared to the size of the hull, and I also wonder about arrangement of the whole machinery.
Perhaps this would be of interest to You (sigh, I have to finish them... :roll: )
http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 64#p171864

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Archelaos
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 11th, 2018, 8:30 pm
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Wow, great designs! Especially GD, that's awesome!

I thought about using inflatable rafts in canisters but can't find info when those were introduced?


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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 12th, 2018, 7:21 am
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Hi Achelaos!

Boxed rafts like these were fitted to the British Tiger-class cruisers from 1959 or so, if the pix in Friedman's book are labeled correctly. I'd just go ahead.

Greetings
GD


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 12th, 2018, 12:34 pm
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I'm not that interested in this challenge, but I can post a concept drawing I did some time ago. It was the 1960 frigate project of Norway, where they had an idea on building Oslo class on a Fletcher hull instead of Dealey class hull.

I based all the drawings on Oslo class, since it would be the same design/engineering team doing (fletcher-hull) Oslo class as did the (dealey-hull) Oslo class, so it isn't much to say! Each drawing explain itself and most of you know how Oslo class look like. Note some of them have the Terner-launcher mounted aft, just like on Sleipner class corvettes.

Armament info, will be posted under each drawing.


[ img ]
Armament:
1 x 127 mm DP/AA
2 x 57 mm AA/DP
2 x 40 mm AA (Norway have many of them... so why not)
2 x 20 mm
1 X Terne III ASW
2 X triple torpedo launcher
2 X racks of depth charges

Helicopter deck just like how Oslo class had it original
-------------------------------------

[ img ]
Armament:
2 x 76 mm twin DP/AA
1 x 57 mm DP/AA
2 x 40 mm AA
2 x 20 mm
1 X Terne III ASW
2 X triple torpedo launcher
2 X racks of depth charges

Helicopter deck just like how Oslo class had it original
-------------------------------------

[ img ]
Same as above, but different radar!
Armament:
2 x 76 mm twin DP/AA
1 x 57 mm DP/AA
2 x 40 mm AA
2 x 20 mm
1 X Terne III ASW
2 X triple torpedo launcher
2 X racks of depth charges

Helicopter deck just like how Oslo class had it original
-------------------------------------

[ img ]
Armament(Upgraded):
1 x 76 mm twin DP/AA
1 x 57 mm DP/AA
1 x 40 mm AA
1 x Mk 29 Sea Sparrow
2 x 20 mm
1 X Terne III ASW
2 X triple torpedo launcher
2 X racks of depth charges

Helicopter deck just like how Oslo class had it original
-------------------------------------

[ img ]
Armament:
2 x 76 mm twin DP/AA
1 x 57 mm DP/AA
2 x 40 mm AA
2 x 20 mm
1 X Terne III ASW
2 X triple torpedo launcher
2 X racks of depth charges

Helicopter deck just like how Oslo class had it original
-------------------------------------

[ img ]
Armament:
2 x 76 mm twin DP/AA
1 x 57 mm DP/AA (different turret, more light weight)
2 x 40 mm AA
2 x 20 mm
1 X Terne III ASW
2 X triple torpedo launcher
2 X racks of depth charges

Helicopter deck just like how Oslo class had it original
-------------------------------------

[ img ]
Armament:
3 x 76 mm twin DP/AA
2 x 40 mm AA
2 x 20 mm
1 X Terne III ASW
2 X triple torpedo launcher
2 X racks of depth charges

Helicopter deck just like how Oslo class had it original
-------------------------------------

[ img ]
Armament:
2 x 76 mm twin DP/AA
4 x 40 mm AA
2 x 20 mm
1 X Terne III ASW
2 X triple torpedo launcher
2 X racks of depth charges

Helicopter deck just like how Oslo class had it original
-------------------------------------

Note:
- all version would be equipped with Penguin missiles, when they get available, just like on Oslo class, I imagens (Fletcher)-Oslo class would carry more.
- I'm considering to have the possibility to equip them with Mk-48 Mod 1 (but I am for now staying at Oslo class style/version)
- Oslo class Version 5 and 6 is my favorite
- some parts might be old, due to new parts have come available after this drawing was drawn!


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Taihei Tengoku
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 13th, 2018, 3:51 am
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[ img ]

Taihei Tengoku, Mogami-class destroyer leader (1950)
Length: 131.7m w/l
Draft: 4.88m
Beam: 11m
Displacement: 3,100t standard / 4,050t full
Speed: 34kts maximum
Propulsion: 6x marine diesels, 2 shafts, 57,000hp

Armament:
-4x twin 10cm Type 5700 DP guns
-2x 34cm Type 5703 anti-submarine mortars
-lots of 25mm Hotchkiss
-depth charges and K-guns

Electronics:
-2x tachymetric HA directors (RN Mk 37 with ~magic~)
-1x air search radar
-1x surface search radar
-1x hydrophone

The Mogami-class destroyer leader marked a the Taihei Combined Fleet's departure from decisive battle towards sea control. Laid down in 1948 and commissioned in January of 1950, the Mogami-class incorporated tachymetric gun direction (with imported Questarian directors), an integrated ASW suite, and a centralized combat information center, all firsts for Taihei shipbuilding. Much larger than her torpedo-centric destroyer charges, the twelve ships of the class led the smaller destroyers (now re-roled as "destroyer escorts") in security patrols around the Pearl Sea. Her diesel powerplant afforded her greater range compared to other ships her size, and could escort the dwindling stable of Taihei capital ships in the greater Maredoratic as the cruisers aged out of service.

On one hand, the Mogami was a retrenchment: Taihei Tengoku's autarkic "National System" of economic cartelization and material planning could not keep up with the vastly larger Alisnan economies, and the new "destroyer leaders" were much smaller than the light cruisers they replaced. On the other it was a step forward: the Fleet quit the "statistics race" of cramming the largest engine with the most guns in the smallest, best-protected hull for a combatant that prioritized the often underappreciated command and control aspects of warfare. With the advent of the atomic bomb, the jet aircraft, and the diesel-electric submarine, the age of "decisive battle" as any admiral would know it was over. The Mogami was the Taihei attempt to adapt to this reality with their stagnating economy and lagging technology.

The chief armament of the Mogami-class is the eight 10cm dual-purpose, quick-firing guns, first mounted on the Shinonome-class destroyers of 1941. They are mated to two imported Questarian HA tachymetric directors. Each director can lay all four turrets on its targeting information, but typically the forward director controls the forward turret while the aft director controls the aft three. For self-defense a plethora of 25mm anti-aircraft cannons are mounted, although they are all under local control. An air search radar (adapted from a battleship set) can detect aircraft out to 130km away at high altitude. Anti-air gunnery is coordinated inside a CIC located in the aft of the ship. The forward armament consists of two 13.5" muzzle-loading anti-submarine mortars mounted abreast. Each mortar has a hoist and loading gate immediately forward of its mounting. Coupled with the hydrophone these made the destroyer leaders potent ASW combatants.

The Mogami-class is considered a well-executed, although technologically backward, design. The ships proved reliable in service, but her principal armament (the AA guns) were almost immediately outstripped by rapid developments in jet aviation. Mogami, Nekka, and Dairyo were refitted into guided-missile destroyers with imported Prekovi surface-to-air missiles between 1959 and 1963, and the rebuilt ships provided the basis of the Kano-class of missile-armed destroyer leaders of the 1960s. All ships of the class were retired by 1975, and none survive today.

edit:

A slight revision with the rear mast courtesy of Ian:
[ img ]


Last edited by Taihei Tengoku on August 14th, 2018, 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 13th, 2018, 10:15 pm
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Awesome work in this thread so far!

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