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jadog123
Post subject: Re: Second World War Destroyer Escort ChallengePosted: November 13th, 2020, 9:30 pm
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ARM Guadalajara

READ THIS BEFORE JUDGING MY SHIP

Developement

The year was 1939. In order to protect there convoys which are delivering vital supplies to the Mexican empires colonies in South America, the Navy design bureau began designing brand new class of destroyer escorts, made to protect the Mexican trade fleet from the menace of Argentinian patrol boats and frigates. Work began on the hull design and construction almost immediately, with the weaponry and powerplant following several months later.

As the Mexican navy worked on the designs, they realized that as far as modern ship building experience went, they had almost none. In addition, there were no guns suitable for a DE. With trade losses mounting by the month, the Mexican government contacted several foreign world powers, hoping to get there hands on weapon designs. As it turned out, many of them were too busy fighting their own war to devote resources to Mexico, and all trade offers were turned down. In a desperate bid, The navy design bureau contacted a patch of Austrian resistance fighters, hoping that they could steal tech from the Germans. The Austrians agreed, and in a daring raid on the German shipyard at Hamburg, they managed to capture several new and old blueprints, which were sent to the Mexicans. Unfortunately however, there were no Spanish speakers among the Austrian resistance, and so when the Mexican naval design bureau put in a request for the designs for a 12cm gun, they received a 12in gun. The 30.5cm SK L/50 to be precise, the type used on the Derfflinger class of battlecruisers.

Upon receiving the designs, the Design bureau immediately sent it out to all of its naval factories, and began mass production. Within a few weeks of the production order, odd reports began coming in from factories, questioning what they were building. The design bureau investigated, and found out that the factories were in fact building 12in. guns. After several junior officers in the design bureau were fired for not checking up on weather the designs were what they had asked for before copying and shipping them out for production, the design bureau sat down to discuss what to do next. They couldn't ask for another gun, because the resistance group which had supplied them the 30.5cm weapon had been eradicated by the SS days after the raid. There would have to either design a new weapon from scratch, or implement the massive 30.5cm SK L/50 on there DE's.

An intense debate raged, but it was finally decided that with what little industry Mexico had geared for production of the 30.5cm gun, and cargo losses mounting, the DE design would have to be modified to mount the gun, and then put into service. The hull design was quickly edited, with the boilers moved forward, into the space which was originally planned to fit the forward magazines, and the engine room moved farther aft. The 30.5cm gun turret itself was also stripped of most of its armor, leaving only about an inch on all sides, but even without the extra weight, the turret and barbet still weight roughly 450 tons. In order to provide some semblance of defense from light patrol boats and aircraft, several 40 and 20mm guns were fitted, which had been stolen from a pair of liberty ships that had washed up on Mexican coastline. In addition sever Japanese rangefinders which a cartel had acquired for the government in exchange for handguns were fitted, and linked to the main gun, in order to provide a decent long range firing system.

Soon after the launch of the first ship, massive instability issues caused by the placement of the 30.5cm gun high up in the ship caused the lead ship, Guadalajara, to capsize in port. It was quickly righted, but the problem of instability remained. Some quick thinking on the part of a navy jr. engineer caused a pair of empty oil tanks to be strapped onto the sides of the ship, fixing its instability. Soon after, these tanks were rived onto the sides of the ship, and a ballistic cap was fitted in order to improve hydrodynamics. This was soon incorporated into the design of the ship, and all further ships of the class had the tanks built on during construction. it was also found out that if the tanks wee partially filed with fuel oil, the operational range of the Guadalajara class could be greatly improved. The main downside to this was that in order to move the fuel from the external tanks to the internal ones, someone had to be lowered off of the side of the ship with a rubber hose, which then had to be run across the ships deck, and attached to an electrical pump which pumped fuel out of the pontoons and into the internal tanks. The other downside was that pontoons filled with oil had catastrophic results when hit in battle. There would be a total of seven ships in the class produced, which saw combat all over the waters of south America, with the most notable instance being when the Guadalajara, San Phillipe, Pajapan, and San Andres Tuxala sank 3 Argentinian cruiser in the space of 2 hours with accurate salvoes of long-range gunfire.

[ img ]

General Specifications

Displacement (full load): 5,300 tons
Length: 106m
Width: 23.4m (11 without pontoons)
Draft:8.6m
Machinery: triple expansion steam engines, 2 shafts, 16,500 SHP
Speed: 17kn
Speed without pontoons: 23kn
Range: 8,400 nautical miles at 11kn
Range without fuel in pontoons: 3,200 nautical miles at 11kn

Armament:

1x2 30.5cm SK L/50
3x4 40mm L/60 Bofors
4x1 20mm L/70 Oerlikons

Armor:

Belt: NA
Deck: NA
Turret face: 25mm
Turret sides: 20mm
Turret roof: 20mm
Barbette: 20mm

This was my first ever ship in ship bucket scale yay!


Last edited by jadog123 on November 20th, 2020, 4:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: Second World War Destroyer Escort ChallengePosted: November 13th, 2020, 10:04 pm
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Joined: April 1st, 2018, 9:07 pm
Quote:
Some quick thinking on the part of a navy jr. engineer caused a pair of empty oil tanks to be strapped onto the sides of the ship, fixing its instability. Soon after, these tanks were rived onto the sides of the ship, and a ballistic cap was fitted in order to improve hydrodynamics.
That idea (or something similar) I had some time ago and boy, what I had to hear from the part of a naval engineer, here in the forum... :D


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Albert1099
Post subject: Re: Second World War Destroyer Escort ChallengePosted: November 14th, 2020, 5:59 am
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(PA)Piraíba Class, 1943-1945
A ship named after a catfish, did some valiant service in the Atlantic front.

[ img ]

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"If it isn't the consequences of my actions"


Last edited by Albert1099 on November 15th, 2020, 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: Second World War Destroyer Escort ChallengePosted: November 14th, 2020, 8:13 pm
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Joined: April 1st, 2018, 9:07 pm
The rear mounted artillery weapon is mounted way too high! This would cause problems with the ship's stability.


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Charguizard
Post subject: Re: Second World War Destroyer Escort ChallengePosted: November 15th, 2020, 2:51 pm
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Location: Santiago Basin
Seems fine to me, doesn't look any worse than a Clemson for example

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Hatsuyuki-class Escort Ships . . . <3


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jadog123
Post subject: Re: Second World War Destroyer Escort ChallengePosted: November 18th, 2020, 4:41 pm
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Cargil48 wrote: *
The rear mounted artillery weapon is mounted way too high! This would cause problems with the ship's stability.
Problems in stability...
*Guadalajara sweating nervously*


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Shigure
Post subject: Re: Second World War Destroyer Escort ChallengePosted: November 18th, 2020, 8:40 pm
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Gremary-class light frigate

[ img ]

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Last edited by Shigure on November 25th, 2020, 8:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Armoured man
Post subject: Re: Second World War Destroyer Escort ChallengePosted: November 19th, 2020, 2:14 am
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G-34-Class General-Purpose Escort Ship

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Work list: 1. Aircraft carrier challenge submission 2. Haruryū class battlecruiser 3. Some protected cruisers and other miscellaneous projects


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waritem
Post subject: Re: Second World War Destroyer Escort ChallengePosted: November 19th, 2020, 11:52 pm
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Location: France
Cretan 1938π class Kanoniofóron Genikís Chrísis
In the mid thirties the growing tensions in several parts of the world seemed to lead without fail to localised wars if not to a new global conflagration. The trade sea routes were , then as ever, of strategic importance to the Cretan republic. It was the essential link to its overseas σταθμός (trading factories) and the source of the overwhelming majority of foreign currency inflows of the small Mediterranean state. Even if neutrality was to be preserved, the necessary protection of those arteries was vital.

The ragtag fleet inherited from the great war period was unsuitable to counter effectively the newest threats fielded by navies around the world. The performances of the last generation submarines was especially of great concern. Therefore a new design of standardised escort/patrol ship was seeked.

The only purpose built escort in the cretan inventory was also the more satisfying: 1915 class Kanoniofóron Genikís Chrísis (general purpose gunboat). It was a bulky beefy ship based on oceangoing tug hull. The design favored endurance and toughness over speed. What would remaind the general phylosophy for those ships who were intended to fulfil also patrol, salvage and tug duties. Despite responding to all espectations, those 500 tons ships were concidered cramped and very slow while undertaking WW1 neutrality escort duty. At 13 knots they were unable to overtake a surfaced U-boat , and hardely reached back the ships they had to escort after a chase. But in this period the duty was only to repel a neutrality violating attack, deliberate or undeliberate, and not necessarely to sink the violator.

With unguaranteed neutrality in futur conflict, the ship was required to be able to hunt hostil submarines at full speed (even surfaced). Therefore the programme, launched 1936 with the advent of civil war in spain, specified a minimum speed of 18 knots. The ship, based on the brand new 1935 class fleet tug design, should also further large accomodations for crew and eventuel castaways.

The chosen design was significantly elongated compared to the ship it was based on, at 2100 tons it was quite a heavy ship for an escort. This allowed to combine a respectable weaponry of two twin 90mm/52 gunmount (fore and aft), three twin 37 mm/54, and two twin 20 mm/65, (plus ASW gear of course) to a wide range. As it was the mood in contemporary cretan ships, the former diesel electric drive was kept, but increased to reach the required speed.
Much attention had been paid to the ability to rescue at sea. The new lifeboat fast launching system was particularly well suitable for this task. Four ramps were positionned on the flanks of the conning tower, one for a 6 meter craft et one for a 8 meter craft on each side. The ship had not less than six huge searchligth to quickly find survivors at night.

First batch was launched in early 1938 (hence the name of the class).They included a simplified construction process to be subcontractable in foreign shipyards with lower standards. After commissionning the lifeboat showed to be overexposed in rough sea. The following batchs furthered an enlarged conning tower creating deflector sponsons to protect them. The space gained was used to add two more 20mm mounts.

A particular subserial was the 1938π class (polikós=polar) suited to the navigation conditions around the Cretan arctic and antarctic possessions. Its main differences was its icebreaker bow and a slightly reinforced hull (the original one was yet sturdy). This deteriorated seaworthiness far less than expected (almost unnoticeable). Fitting it to all new coming ship was even envisonnated to incrise versatility. In the course of war some (π or not) were fitted with a take-off platform to accommodate an autogyro. It became standard to have at least one per division such equipped ship.

Apart from their involvement in aleutian campaign those ships have had a rather eventless service has axis forces were quite inactive in their area. Their standards half-sister ships were much more busy in atlantic, mediteranéea and indian ocean, where they proved themself as respected and feared ships.
For both types, their strong structure made them long lasting ships. After decommissioning from cretan service in the late seventies (replaced by upgraded similar designs), they were prized items by secondhand users. To this days, plenty remains in use for foreing military or civils users.
[ img ]

A word about the sources and design:
In the same way the british flower class was designed on a whaler, i wished to design my escort ship on a "rustic" workboat. I chose to start from a tugboat. To make it even "gruffer", i did this icebreaking variant.
As it turn to be a habit for me, i cannibalised two Garlicdesigns ships:
- Naomh-Odran-Class tugboat,
- Iaguar-Class Frigate,
The boat sports my first attempt at Cretan camouflage, I'm not sure about it yet........

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Alexandre Dumas

JE SUIS CHARLIE


Last edited by waritem on November 20th, 2020, 5:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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jjx indoweeb
Post subject: Re: Second World War Destroyer Escort ChallengePosted: November 20th, 2020, 3:02 pm
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[ img ]
Class and type : Naga class Lead Ship

Displacement : 1,100 ton (standard) 1,410 ton (full load)
Length : 95.2 m
Beam : 11.7 m
Draft : 3.8 m
Machinery : 4 diesel engines with electric drive
6,000 shp (4,500 kW), 2 screws
Speed : 20 kn cruise, 23 kn max
Range : 13,000 nmi at 10 knots
Complement : 12 officers, 205 naval crew
Armament : 2 x 76mm cannon on dual-purpose mount
1 x 76mm cannon on single-purpose mount
2 x dual 37mm autocannons on dual-purpose mount
4 x 12mm heavy machine guns
2 x depth charge rails
1 x depth charge projector (pelontar maut)


Last edited by jjx indoweeb on November 24th, 2020, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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