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FdDA - Frégate de Défense Aérienne http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10562 |
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Author: | HanD [ July 29th, 2022, 4:19 am ] |
Post subject: | FdDA - Frégate de Défense Aérienne |
Sensors Suite:
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Author: | Blackbuck [ August 5th, 2022, 3:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: FdDA - Frégate de Défense Aérienne |
You're asking for what a Formidable does on a smaller platform but with additional weight and volume restrictions so could probably well do with embiggening the whole thing to better suit that. |
Author: | erik_t [ August 5th, 2022, 10:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: FdDA - Frégate de Défense Aérienne |
Without getting too deep into the weeds, I agree that the design is badly overloaded. |
Author: | HanD [ August 15th, 2022, 3:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: FdDA - Frégate de Défense Aérienne |
You're asking for what a Formidable does on a smaller platform but with additional weight and volume restrictions so could probably well do with embiggening the whole thing to better suit that.
Without getting too deep into the weeds, I agree that the design is badly overloaded.
Thanks very much for your comments; in your opinion, what is the element contributing the most 'over-weight' to the ship?
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Author: | Rainmaker [ August 15th, 2022, 6:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: FdDA - Frégate de Défense Aérienne |
Your design is about the size of a corvette, but equipped with the radar and weapons systems of an air-defence destroyer. Have a look at the French Aquitaine - class frigate, or Formidable - class frigate from Singapore, to see vessels of a similar type and how their size compares with your vessel. Additionally, having Thales Herakles and Thales SMART-L on a single vessel is somewhat redundant - they are both long-range, three-dimensional air search radars. The SMART-L is an absolutely massive system - the smallest vessels they've been mounted on are the German Sachsen - class, which are essentially destroyers in all but name, 5,780 tons displacement at full load and 143 metres long! Based on the length of your vessel, I doubt you have enough beam to have that radar sandwiched between the two exhaust funnels, regardless. Additional comments, in no particular order. You have no comms beyond what looks like a few VHF whip antennas. This type of warship should have a large comms mast to support things like ESM, TACAN for helicopter operations, etc. Placement of the anti-ship missiles is weird - I only see space for that single quad launcher - why is it facing rearward? Two quad-launchers directly across from one another and facing abeam would make more sense and take up minimal space. You have no space for RHIBs/ship's boats. I assume that's a door on the side of the hangar - what is it used for? How does your crew reload the RAM launcher on top of the bridge? What are you using for gun fire control? I ask because neither of those radars have that capability to my knowledge. Apologies for the teardown - I hope it doesn't come across as too harsh. The drawing itself is skillfully executed, there are just some elements that could be better thought out. My suggestion is to have a look at real-world vessels that have the same intended role as your vessel, and see how they compare and contrast, then make changes accordingly. Best of luck! |
Author: | HanD [ August 15th, 2022, 7:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: FdDA - Frégate de Défense Aérienne |
Your design is about the size of a corvette, but equipped with the radar and weapons systems of an air-defence destroyer. Have a look at the French Aquitaine - class frigate, or Formidable - class frigate from Singapore, to see vessels of a similar type and how their size compares with your vessel.
Thank you so very much; the in-depth teardown is truly appreciated.
Additionally, having Thales Herakles and Thales SMART-L on a single vessel is somewhat redundant - they are both long-range, three-dimensional air search radars. The SMART-L is an absolutely massive system - the smallest vessels they've been mounted on are the German Sachsen - class, which are essentially destroyers in all but name, 5,780 tons displacement at full load and 143 metres long! Based on the length of your vessel, I doubt you have enough beam to have that radar sandwiched between the two exhaust funnels, regardless. Additional comments, in no particular order. You have no comms beyond what looks like a few VHF whip antennas. This type of warship should have a large comms mast to support things like ESM, TACAN for helicopter operations, etc. Placement of the anti-ship missiles is weird - I only see space for that single quad launcher - why is it facing rearward? Two quad-launchers directly across from one another and facing abeam would make more sense and take up minimal space. You have no space for RHIBs/ship's boats. I assume that's a door on the side of the hangar - what is it used for? How does your crew reload the RAM launcher on top of the bridge? What are you using for gun fire control? I ask because neither of those radars have that capability to my knowledge. Apologies for the teardown - I hope it doesn't come across as too harsh. The drawing itself is skillfully executed, there are just some elements that could be better thought out. My suggestion is to have a look at real-world vessels that have the same intended role as your vessel, and see how they compare and contrast, then make changes accordingly. Best of luck! |
Author: | erik_t [ August 15th, 2022, 7:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: FdDA - Frégate de Défense Aérienne |
I don't have a ton to add to Rainmaker's comment. I think one helpful way to develop a "feel" for appropriate weapons, sensors, equipment, etc. is to try sketching a made-up second cousin of a real ship, making different top-level trade-offs and examining how it alters the ship impact. For example, because I am very USN-brained, I drew a lot of imaginary Perry contemporaries earlier in my "career". What if I want a bigger gun or a gun on the bow? What if I want twin screws? What if I want SPS-48? What if I am willing to accept a single helo? What directions do these considerations take me? Once you have developed that sort of feel, you can do a better job striking out in more novel directions. I'd note that you can conduct this "research" sort of in parallel to learning how to draw in detail and add important-but-lower-impact gear like radio aerials, satcom domes, deck gear, etc. Many of my drawings barely proceeded beyond an outline sketch. |
Author: | HanD [ August 15th, 2022, 8:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: FdDA - Frégate de Défense Aérienne |
I don't have a ton to add to Rainmaker's comment. I think one helpful way to develop a "feel" for appropriate weapons, sensors, equipment, etc. is to try sketching a made-up second cousin of a real ship, making different top-level trade-offs and examining how it alters the ship impact.
Your comments are very valued, erik. I'll try what you've suggested.
For example, because I am very USN-brained, I drew a lot of imaginary Perry contemporaries earlier in my "career". What if I want a bigger gun or a gun on the bow? What if I want twin screws? What if I want SPS-48? What if I am willing to accept a single helo? What directions do these considerations take me? Once you have developed that sort of feel, you can do a better job striking out in more novel directions. I'd note that you can conduct this "research" sort of in parallel to learning how to draw in detail and add important-but-lower-impact gear like radio aerials, satcom domes, deck gear, etc. Many of my drawings barely proceeded beyond an outline sketch. |
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