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acelanceloet
Post subject: NATO ASW Design ChallengePosted: March 12th, 2012, 10:53 pm
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Read the last post in the thread everyone.

-TimothyC



Every now and then, the idea of an Shipbucket design competition comes up on the forum. After the success of the 1936 gunboat thread some time ago, Thiel and I discussed if something like that could be set up again. After a long discussion, we decided just to do it.

We have lots of own design AA boats and battleships on the bucket. So we de decided against something like that. We wanted something that could be drawn by both shipbucket masters and newbe’s. for the best it is test of their minds, for the newbe’s it is an perfect way to improve their way of thinking. We hope to see a lot of both joining in, just to see what different minds and experiences can come up with.
We tried to emulate the real shipbuilding industry a bit by setting an set of specifications, but still leaving you guys free to do what you want as long as it stays inside these specs.

The idea is an ASW/ASuW vessel from about 1980. About everything from a VDS tug to an Iroqouis is acceptable. The ships are restricted to real life or close to real life weapons (so the mad part of never build is not allowed :P) Further specifications below:

Country: NATO member
In commision: 1975-1985
Displacement: 3000-5500 metric tons full load
Speed: Sustained: 20kts, Sprint 30kts
Range: Designers choice
Primary mission: Anti Submarine Warfare
Secondary missions: Self defence AAW, ASuW
Aviation facilities: Designers choice
Armament: Designers Choice

Also, everybody with an opinion on one of the designs, feel free to comment. I will put the designs in the first post to compare all designs. If somebody comments on all designs posted, I might include their comments with the comparision as well.

- Note for the ones who post an design: please post an shortlist of the capabilities, (speed, range,etc) specifications (length, beam, breadth, displacement, (if possible block coefficient) weapons, engine systems) so people like me, who like to calculate a bit, can try out things a bit. Of course none of all these are mandatory, don’t let this stop you from participating, but if you can… please do.


list of finished designs:
rifleman wrote:
[ img ]

NATO ASW proposal

L:148m
B:16.6M
D:6.4M
Wt: 5,500T
Speed Cruise 18 Kts
Sprint 30 Kts
Range: 17,600 Km
Propulsion: COGOG
2x Rolls-Royce Olympus TM3B
2x Rolls-Royce Tyne RM1C
Armament:
1x 127mm/54 Compact Oto-melara
4x Single 20mm Oerlikon
2x Twin 30mm BMARC GCMAO3
1x Signaal 30mm SGE-30 Goalkeeper
4x Mk32 Mod3 Torpedo tubes
Mk141 RGM84 Harpoon
Mk29 Sea Sparrow
Radar: Signaal LW08
Signaal ZW06
Signaal STIR
Signaal WM22
Sonar: Type 2008
Type 2031Z Towed array
Electronics: ESSM, ECM, Chaff, Communications and navagation.
Complement: 225-250
Aircraft: 1 Sea Seaking HAS or 2x Lynx HAS

Designed by a consortium of Dutch, Canadian and UK companies taking on lessons learnt from operations in Persian Gulf and with the British in the Falklands. The ship design included enhanced damage control and firefighting capabilities. Is well protected for operations in NBC enviroment. Extensive use is being made of automation.
The Ship is designed to operate for Prolonged periods in GIUK gap and in Canada Greenland sealanes. But also has enhanced airconditioning to allow prolonged operation in Hot enviroments like Carribbean and Persian Gulf.
heuhen wrote:
Type: ASW with ASuW and AAW capability's
Displacement: Approx. 5,000 tons
Length: 396 feet (120.7 meters)
Beam: 52 feet (16 meters)
Drought: max: 22 feet (6.7 meters)

Propulsion:

2-shaft COGOG
2 Rolls-Royce Olympus TM3B high-speed gas turbines (54,000 shp / 40 MW)
2 Rolls-Royce Tyne RM1C cruise gas turbines (9,700 shp / 7.2 MW)

Speed: 31 knots+-
19 knots

Range: 6,000 nmi (11,000 km) at 19 kn; 3,300 nmi (6,100 km) at 31 kn

Complement: 140-280


Armament:

Capability to be equipped with most American and European weapon systems. see drawings bellow.
the standard weapon on them all is

1 * 76mm gun DP
2 * 30mm
2 * 12,7mm
2 * triple torpedo tubes
1 * quad sea sparrow launcher (with reload magazine Oslo class style).


Armor: limited Kevlar splinter protection in critical areas
Aircraft carried: 1+1 × Lynx, depends of mission

The standard with Mk-141 Harpoon on foredeck:
[ img ]

Here with Terne III (Rocket powered depth charges, with space for reload magazine):
[ img ]

ASROC instead for Terne III:
[ img ]

Novice wrote:
A British armed frigate, around 5000t to 6000t.
Armament is
1 4.5" Mk.8 gun
1 Sea Wolf launcher
1 Ikara launcher
2 triple 12.75" ASW torpedoes
2 Wessex or Sea King helos
Speed is 25kts sustained with CODAD engines

[ img ]
Rowdy36 wrote:

[ img ]

Vampire Class Frigate
FF-07 Vampire
FF-08 Voyager
FF-09 Vengeance
FF-10 Vendetta

Length: 132m overall
Beam: 14.2m
Draught: 5.8m (over sonar dome)
Displacement: 4,600t
Machinery: CODLAG
4 x Paxman Valenta Diesel Generators
2 x Electric Motors
2 x Rolls-Royce Olympus Gas Turbines (48 MW/50,000 shp)
Speed: 30kn
Range: 4,500nm at 20kn
Complement: 233
Aircraft: 2 x Westland Lynx

1 x 5"/54 caliber Mark 45 Mod 1 Gun
1 x Mk 29 GMLS
2 x Mk 141 quad GMLS
2 x Mk 32 SVTT
1 x 20mm Phalanx Block 0 CIWS
2 x 20mm GAM BO1 Guns
4 x 12.7mm M2HB HMGs

AN/SPS-49 2D Air Search
AN/SPS-55 Surface Search
WM25 Fire Control System

Mulloka Hull Sonar
Type 2031 Towed Array Sonar

AN/SLQ-32(V)2 EWS
Mark 36 SRBOC
AN/SLQ-25 Nixie Towed Torpedo Decoy
Hood wrote:
Type 25 or Chatham Class Frigate

[ img ]

Displacement: 3,500 tons standard, 4,100 tons fully loaded
Dimensions: 412 feet long, beam 48ft 6ins, draught 19 ft (over sonar dome)
Gun Armament: Two 20mm Oerlikon L/75AA in GAM-BO1 single mountings
Missile Armament: Three sextuple BAe Sea Wolf launchers (45 missiles) and two qaudruple Harpoon launchers (8 missiles)
Torpedo Armament: Two triple 12.75in A/S STWS-2 torpedo tube mountings (18 Stingray or Mk 46 A/S torpedoes)
Aircraft: One EH101 or Lynx HAS. Mk.2/3 in a hangar aft (Skua ASMs and Stingray A/S torpedoes)
Electronics: One Type 967/968 air/surface search radar, one Type 1006 navigation radar, two Type 911 fire-control radars used in conjuction with two GWS 25 Mod 3 SAM fire-control systems, one Sea Archer gun-fire control system, two chaff launchers, four Sea Gnat decoy launchers, one Type 2031 passive towed sonar array, one Type 2050 bow active/passive search and attack sonar, one Type 182 towed torpedo decoy system, one CACS 5 action information system, two Type 970 jammers, UAA-1 Abbbey Hill ESM, Link 11 and 14 datalinks and two SCOT satelite communication systems
Propulsion: COGAD arrangement. Diesel-Electric cruise powerplant which is very quiet, has no mechanical connection to propellers and diesels are above watelrine to further reduce noise, electric drive also increases endurance and the generators drive the propellers and the electrical system. Four Paxman Valenta 12 RPA 200 CZ diesels delivering 7,000hp and two RR Spey SM1A for fast running delovering 34,000hp to two shafts.
Performance: 28 kts clean fast, 20 knots electric cruise; range 8,500nm at 15 kts
Complement: 12 + 146 with a maximum of 17 + 188 possible

Class
HMS Chatham (F90), Yarrow, commissioned April 1987
HMS Coventry (F91), Yarrow, commissioned June 1988
HMS Cornwall (F92), Cammell Laird, May 1988
HMS Campbelton (F93), Swan Hunter, Jan 1989
HMS Crystal, Yarrow (F94), Nov 1989
HMS Consort, Yarrow (F95), June 1990
HMS Chieftan (F96), Swan Hunter, Aug 1989
HMS Comet (F97), Cammell Laird, Nov 1989
HMS Contest (F98), Yarrow, Aug 1990
HMS Crusader (F99), Yarrow, May 1991
HMS Crown (F100), Swan Hunter, Oct 1990
HMS Cumberland (F101), Cammell Laird, Dec 1991
MC Spoilt B'stard wrote:
[ img ]
NATO Submarine Hunting Frigate Proposal 1981

Type: Frigate
Primary role: ASW
Secondary role: ASuW & AAW

Length: 116 m
Beam: 12,6 m
Displacement: 3,900 t
Max displ. : 4,700

Propulsion
2 shaft COGOG
2x Rolls Royce Tyne RM1C gas turbines 4,900 shp (3,700 KW each)
2x Rolls Royce Olympus TM3B gas turbines 27,500 shp (19,200 KW each) [ boost]

Speed
Cruise: 25 knots
Max: 38+ knots

Endurance:
4,500 Nm at 16 knots

complement
145 – 163

Armament:
- 1 x 76mm OTO Melara
- 2x 375mm Bofors Depth charge Launcher
- 2x mk32 SVTT [triple]
- 2x dual Harpoon Anti-ship missile’s
- 1x MK29 8-cell NSSM surface-to-Air Missile’s
- 6x 20 mm Oerlikon dual purpose canon

Aviation:
- 1x Westland Lynx ASW helicopter
- Landing platform for one and hangar for 2 Westland Lynx helicopters

Special Features:
- 1x Towed Array Sonar
- 1x ''Backward Looking Sonar''
Clonecommander6454 wrote:
[ img ]
[ img ]
acelanceloet wrote:
[ img ]

FFHN-1 Vandalia Class
Type: frigate
Year of commissioning: 1980
Displacement: 4500 metric tons (full load)
L*B*D: 121m * 14m * 8,5m
Lengthoa: 131m6
Beamoa: 15m
Draft: 4m
Freeboard: 4,5m
Block coefficient: 0,66
Propulsion: CONAG (COmbined Nuclear And Gas)
1 x Westinghouse LWNP, generating 25000 SHP
1 x General Electric LM-2500-30 generating 21,500 SHP
4 x diesel generator
Speed: cruising speed 20 kts, top speed 30 knots
Range: practically unlimited at 20kts, but 1000nm 30 knots time. Patrol range limited only by crew, diesel and helicopter fuel.
Complement: 200
Sensor and processing systems: radar: mk 23 TAS air search, SPS-76 surface search, heli control radar. Directors: 2 x mk 95 NSSM director. Sonar: SQS-56, SQR-19 Towed Array
Electronic warfare and Decoy systems: SLQ-32(V)2, AN/SLQ-25 Nixie
Arnament: vertical loading 155 mm gun with the ability to fire depth charges and sonobouys
Mk 29 NSSM launch system
Phalanx
2 x Mk 32 triple torpedo tubes
Aircraft carried: 2 x SH-3 Sea King ASW helicopters.

The ships would have most likely taken part of the place of the Spruances. (some of) the Spruances would be converted to Kidd types, as was originally planned.
These ships are ideal for keeping an large area of ocean covered with relatively few ships. I designed them along the lines of the Perry class, as I had done a lot of research on those. This ship came out entirely different though, as you can see.
An drawback of the propulsion system is the cost. The only way to cut cost…. Was to cut other systems then the engines. In this case: the radars. This makes the ship unable to do any other role then ASW. For the same reason I chose the perry’s sonar.

Well, please comment. I certainly know this is not the best design for an ship like this, but I just wanted it to be different. And well…… I think I got that covered :P
jabba wrote:
Here are my final designs! Original ship, extended (and helicopter equipped) second flight and modification to original design.

[ img ]
[ img ]
Dortmund Class ASW Frigate
Year of commission: 1980
Displacement: approx. 4000 tons
Length: 406' (123m)
Armament
2 x DCN 100 mm/55
2 x Twin Breda 40 mmL70
2 x Quad 375 mm AS rocket launchers
4 x 533 mm torpedo tubes
1 x 8 x Sea Sparrow SAM launcher

[ img ]
[ img ]
Dortmund Class, Flight II
Lengthened hull, larger hangar facilities.
Goalkeeper, mk16 ASROC and 8 x Harpoon launchers.
Improved radar & sonar systems.


[ img ]
Dortmund Class, Goalkeeper mod.
LEUT_East wrote:
Here you go Ace
[ img ]
Specifications

Complement
224

Displacement
Light – 3,100 tonnes
Full Load – 4,185 tonnes

Dimensions
Length –134 metres
Beam – 14.5 metres
Draught- 7.3 metres

Propulsion
Shafts – 2
Engines – 4 x Ferguson 12V786-E Diesels
Total Power – 32,500bhp
Speed – 32 knots
Range – 8,000nm @ 15 knots

Armament
Guns – 1 x FMC Mk42 127mm, 2 x 40mm Bofors
SAM Launchers – 2 x Short Brothers Seacat GWS 22 Launchers
ASW Launchers – 1 x Ikara Launcher
Torpedos – 2 x triple Mk32 Tubes

Decoys
2 x Loral Hycor SRBOC Mk36 (6 barrel)

Radars
Air Search/Fire Control – Lockheed AN/SPS-40D
Fire Control (Gun Control) – Signal WM-28
Surface Search - 1 x Norden AN/SPS-67
Navigation - 1 x Kelvin Hughes 1006

Sonar
1 x Hughes SQS-53C (bow mounted)

Aircraft
1 x Westland SK-50A ASW Helicopter
Thiel wrote:
[ img ]

Displacement: 3200 tons full load
Dimensions: 316.5 feet long, beam 47.5 feet
Gun Armament: Two 20mm Oerlikon L/75AA in GAM-BO1 single mountings
Missile Armament: One sextuple BAe Sea Wolf launchers
Torpedo Armament: Two triple 12.75in A/S STWS-2 torpedo tube mountings (18 Stingray or Mk 46 A/S torpedoes)
Aircraft: One Westland Sea King HAS.5
Electronics: One Type 967/968 air/surface search radar, one Type 1006 navigation radar, one Type 911 fire-control radar two chaff launchers, two Sea Gnat decoy launchers, one Type 2087 passive towed sonar array, one bow active/passive search and attack sonar
Propulsion: CODLAG, one RR Olympus TM3B 21.000 kW and two 5500 kW diesels turning two screws.
Performance: 30, 20 knots cruise; range 6000 at 15 kts
Complement: Good question

_________________
[ img ]
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.


Last edited by acelanceloet on April 23rd, 2012, 9:42 am, edited 11 times in total.

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: NATO ASW Design ChallengePosted: March 12th, 2012, 11:36 pm
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I'm intrigued...


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Hood
Post subject: Re: NATO ASW Design ChallengePosted: March 13th, 2012, 10:26 pm
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Interesting.
I already have a couple of ideas.

Being a NATO type does it need to have standard NATO-available weapons and radars?
Also who is the customer? Is it a multinational programme or just invidual nations in NATO?

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: NATO ASW Design ChallengePosted: March 13th, 2012, 10:46 pm
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Preferably, but it's not a requirement.
It's up to you who the user is. Personally I'm fiddling with an RN ship, but if you want yours to be a collaboration between several navies then that's okay as well.

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That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error

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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: NATO ASW Design ChallengePosted: March 13th, 2012, 10:50 pm
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indeed. my own intake is an US (and maybe an dutch) version of a single multi-use design aka common nato frigate, but we decided to leave it all open to see as many different design ideas and variations as possible.

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[ img ]
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.


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ONI-Defense
Post subject: Re: NATO ASW Design ChallengePosted: March 14th, 2012, 1:42 am
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A very promising and interesting challenge. :)

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nighthunter
Post subject: Re: NATO ASW Design ChallengePosted: March 14th, 2012, 4:57 am
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Challenge accepted!

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: NATO ASW Design ChallengePosted: March 14th, 2012, 9:32 am
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[ img ]
A preliminary sketch for my design.

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That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: NATO ASW Design ChallengePosted: March 14th, 2012, 5:49 pm
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I have many ideas but this is idea 1. a 4000 tons vessel.

[ img ]


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rifleman
Post subject: Re: NATO ASW Design ChallengePosted: March 14th, 2012, 6:00 pm
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[ img ]

NATO ASW proposal

L:148m
B:16.6M
D:6.4M
Wt: 5,500T
Speed Cruise 18 Kts
Sprint 30 Kts
Range: 17,600 Km
Propulsion: COGOG
2x Rolls-Royce Olympus TM3B
2x Rolls-Royce Tyne RM1C
Armament:
1x 127mm/54 Compact Oto-melara
4x Single 20mm Oerlikon
2x Twin 30mm BMARC GCMAO3
1x Signaal 30mm SGE-30 Goalkeeper
4x Mk32 Mod3 Torpedo tubes
Mk141 RGM84 Harpoon
Mk29 Sea Sparrow
Radar: Signaal LW08
Signaal ZW06
Signaal STIR
Signaal WM22
Sonar: Type 2008
Type 2031Z Towed array
Electronics: ESSM, ECM, Chaff, Communications and navagation.
Complement: 225-250
Aircraft: 1 Sea Seaking HAS or 2x Lynx HAS

Designed by a consortium of Dutch, Canadian and UK companies taking on lessons learnt from operations in Persian Gulf and with the British in the Falklands. The ship design included enhanced damage control and firefighting capabilities. Is well protected for operations in NBC enviroment. Extensive use is being made of automation.
The Ship is designed to operate for Prolonged periods in GIUK gap and in Canada Greenland sealanes. But also has enhanced airconditioning to allow prolonged operation in Hot enviroments like Carribbean and Persian Gulf.

_________________
"There was nothing wrong with Titanic when she left the Shipyard" Tim McGarry Belfast Comedian


Last edited by rifleman on March 16th, 2012, 6:05 am, edited 4 times in total.

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