Shipbucket

Hello again!

To inflict my french collection in its entirety upon you all, here are some fictional designs. I thought them up many years ago for a self-made boardgame loosely based upon the 1970s vintage Wooden ships and Iron men, with a similar game mechanic to recreate World War I battles. It went through five different editions under the working title Iron ships and Wooden heads and never progressed beyond the playtesting stage because it just did not work properly. What remained were some ship statistics I made up for the French, Russian and US Navies to equip them as fully and diversely with battlecruisers, light cruisers and destroyers as the German and British navies were.

First, a very early french battlecruiser design, basically a much enlargened Edgar Quinet:



Colbert, France Battlecruiser laid down 1906

Displacement:
15.647 t light; 16.474 t standard; 17.493 t normal; 18.307 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(564,30 ft / 564,30 ft) x 75,46 ft x (27,23 / 28,21 ft)
(172,00 m / 172,00 m) x 23,00 m x (8,30 / 8,60 m)

Armament:
8 - 10,79" / 274 mm 50,0 cal guns - 664,45lbs / 301,39kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1906 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 3,35lbs / 1,52kg shells, 500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
Weight of broadside 5.547 lbs / 2.516 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 0,994 t each, 1,987 t total
submerged side tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7,68" / 195 mm 410,11 ft / 125,00 m 10,43 ft / 3,18 m
Ends: 4,33" / 110 mm 154,20 ft / 47,00 m 10,43 ft / 3,18 m
Upper: 4,33" / 110 mm 410,11 ft / 125,00 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 112% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1,57" / 40 mm 410,11 ft / 125,00 m 24,61 ft / 7,50 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 62,34 ft / 19,00 m

- Hull void:
0,00" / 0 mm 0,00 ft / 0,00 m 0,00 ft / 0,00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8,27" / 210 mm 4,33" / 110 mm 7,68" / 195 mm
2nd: 4,33" / 110 mm 2,76" / 70 mm 2,76" / 70 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2,76" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 47.575 shp / 35.491 Kw = 25,00 kts
Range 5.000nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1.833 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
759 - 988

Cost:
£1,579 million / $6,316 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1.383 tons, 7,9%
- Guns: 1.379 tons, 7,9%
- Weapons: 4 tons, 0,0%
Armour: 5.517 tons, 31,5%
- Belts: 2.205 tons, 12,6%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 588 tons, 3,4%
- Armament: 1.392 tons, 8,0%
- Armour Deck: 1.332 tons, 7,6%
Machinery: 3.332 tons, 19,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.216 tons, 29,8%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.845 tons, 10,5%
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1,1%
- Hull void weights: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20.316 lbs / 9.215 Kg = 32,4 x 10,8 " / 274 mm shells or 3,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
Metacentric height 4,3 ft / 1,3 m
Roll period: 15,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,38

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,528 / 0,533
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,48 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16,50%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forward deck: 48,50%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Aft deck: 18,50%, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m
- Quarter deck: 16,50%, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m
- Average freeboard: 20,21 ft / 6,16 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111,7%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151,9%
Waterplane Area: 29.113 Square feet or 2.705 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 644 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,95
- Longitudinal: 1,58
- Overall: 1,00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

As long as I am at it, here the immediate successor model, a battlecruiser version of the Courbet without the side turrets:



Marengo, France Battlecruiser laid down 1910

Displacement:
20.848 t light; 22.066 t standard; 23.994 t normal; 25.536 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(623,36 ft / 623,36 ft) x 85,96 ft x (27,89 / 29,31 ft)
(190,00 m / 190,00 m) x 26,20 m x (8,50 / 8,94 m)

Armament:
8 - 12,01" / 305 mm 50,0 cal guns - 916,46lbs / 415,70kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5,47" / 139 mm 55,0 cal guns - 88,45lbs / 40,12kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1910 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1910 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8.856 lbs / 4.017 kg
Main Torpedoes
1 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedo - 0,909 t total
submerged side tube
2nd Torpedoes
1 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedo - 0,909 t total
submerged side tube

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10,6" / 270 mm 423,23 ft / 129,00 m 11,12 ft / 3,39 m
Ends: 5,51" / 140 mm 200,13 ft / 61,00 m 11,12 ft / 3,39 m
Upper: 5,51" / 140 mm 423,23 ft / 129,00 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 104% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1,97" / 50 mm 423,23 ft / 129,00 m 25,79 ft / 7,86 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 66,27 ft / 20,20 m

- Hull void:
0,00" / 0 mm 0,00 ft / 0,00 m 0,00 ft / 0,00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 6,50" / 165 mm 11,8" / 300 mm
2nd: 6,50" / 165 mm 4,33" / 110 mm 4,33" / 110 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm
Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 11,81" / 300 mm, Aft 11,81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 66.336 shp / 49.487 Kw = 26,00 kts
Range 7.000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3.470 tons (70% coal)

Complement:
963 - 1.253

Cost:
£1,988 million / $7,952 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1.735 tons, 7,2%
- Guns: 1.732 tons, 7,2%
- Weapons: 4 tons, 0,0%
Armour: 8.581 tons, 35,8%
- Belts: 3.358 tons, 14,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 795 tons, 3,3%
- Armament: 2.060 tons, 8,6%
- Armour Deck: 1.945 tons, 8,1%
- Conning Towers: 423 tons, 1,8%
Machinery: 2.927 tons, 12,2%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.404 tons, 30,9%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.146 tons, 13,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0,8%
- Hull void weights: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
34.152 lbs / 15.491 Kg = 39,4 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 7,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
Metacentric height 5,1 ft / 1,5 m
Roll period: 16,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,562 / 0,569
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24,97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forward deck: 50,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Aft deck: 14,00%, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m
- Quarter deck: 18,00%, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m
- Average freeboard: 20,45 ft / 6,23 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94,9%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158,9%
Waterplane Area: 37.818 Square feet or 3.513 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 162 lbs/sq ft or 793 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,43
- Overall: 1,00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

And here the final fictional french battlecruiser of WWI, based upon both of Durand-Viel's proposals, but changed far enough from either to be a personal design rather than a never-built one. As such a ship was unlikely to be completed much before 1920, I fitted it with a tripod mast.



Magenta, France Battlecruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
24.733 t light; 26.328 t standard; 28.099 t normal; 29.516 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(688,98 ft / 688,98 ft) x 90,55 ft x (28,87 / 30,01 ft)
(210,00 m / 210,00 m) x 27,60 m x (8,80 / 9,15 m)

Armament:
8 - 13,39" / 340 mm 50,0 cal guns - 1.269,55lbs / 575,86kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
2 x 2 row quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
24 - 5,47" / 139 mm 55,0 cal guns - 88,45lbs / 40,12kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1913 Model
24 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
18 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 12.388 lbs / 5.619 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 22,0" / 559 mm, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m torpedoes - 1,797 t each, 3,594 t total
submerged side tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 446,19 ft / 136,00 m 11,35 ft / 3,46 m
Ends: 6,50" / 165 mm 242,78 ft / 74,00 m 11,35 ft / 3,46 m
Upper: 6,50" / 165 mm 446,19 ft / 136,00 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1,97" / 50 mm 446,19 ft / 136,00 m 26,51 ft / 8,08 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 70,87 ft / 21,60 m

- Hull void:
0,00" / 0 mm 0,00 ft / 0,00 m 0,00 ft / 0,00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 9,45" / 240 mm 12,6" / 320 mm
2nd: 6,50" / 165 mm 5,51" / 140 mm 5,51" / 140 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm
Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 12,60" / 320 mm, Aft 0,50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 81.006 shp / 60.431 Kw = 27,00 kts
Range 7.000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3.188 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
1.084 - 1.410

Cost:
£2,741 million / $10,966 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2.804 tons, 10,0%
- Guns: 2.797 tons, 10,0%
- Weapons: 7 tons, 0,0%
Armour: 9.574 tons, 34,1%
- Belts: 4.178 tons, 14,9%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 862 tons, 3,1%
- Armament: 1.911 tons, 6,8%
- Armour Deck: 2.362 tons, 8,4%
- Conning Towers: 261 tons, 0,9%
Machinery: 3.325 tons, 11,8%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.730 tons, 31,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.366 tons, 12,0%
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1,1%
- Hull void weights: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39.557 lbs / 17.943 Kg = 33,0 x 13,4 " / 340 mm shells or 4,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20
Metacentric height 6,1 ft / 1,8 m
Roll period: 15,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,66
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,35

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,546 / 0,552
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 22,00%, 24,28 ft / 7,40 m, 24,28 ft / 7,40 m
- Forward deck: 46,00%, 24,28 ft / 7,40 m, 24,28 ft / 7,40 m
- Aft deck: 10,00%, 16,73 ft / 5,10 m, 16,73 ft / 5,10 m
- Quarter deck: 22,00%, 16,73 ft / 5,10 m, 16,73 ft / 5,10 m
- Average freeboard: 21,86 ft / 6,66 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,9%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174,8%
Waterplane Area: 43.377 Square feet or 4.030 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 849 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,45
- Overall: 1,00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Greetings
Garlicdesign

The smaller fictional designs I did not calculate with SpringSharp (which is probably not very reliable to begin with as it thinks the Colbert is a very good sea boat, which she can hardly be with that short forecastle and a row of heavy turrets on the extreme beam of a very narrow hull).

The Bizerte-Class light cruiser - laid down 1902/3 - is a stretched development of the Infernet with 23-24 knots speed and more 100mm guns, still with VTE engines.



The Chevalier Paul-class - laid down 1906/7 - marks the step towards turbine propulsion and a speed of 25-26 knots, but still without vertical protection and with a mixed battery of 2 - 139mm and 8 - 100mm.



Following in 1910, the Jean de Vienne-class finally is a full fledged light cruiser of 27-28 knots with 6-139mm guns, 8-450mm Torpedo tubes and a 60mm belt.



While these cruisers are completely made up, the following destroyer is a speculation based upon a footnote in Weyer's Taschenbuch der Kriegsflotten, 1918 Edition (I own a reprint issued some time in the eighties) saying the French ordered four 33-knot 1200-ton destroyers with 4-100mm, 4-75mm and 4 Torpedo tubes in 1914, which eventually failed to materialize.



Again completely made up is the hypothetical successor model, 1916/1917 vintage, which is the same size as the Russian Izyaslav-class, which was built with technical assistance of Normand. It is a 1.350-ton hull with 5-100mm guns and 6-550mm Torpedo Tubes and a speed of 35 knots.



So, that's it for now. Anything else is yet to be drawn.

Garlicdesign

Strikes me as an intermediary between an Edgar Quinet and a Danton.
I'm wondering if I would've stuck with main battery wing turrets.

These are really nice, and a lot better designs than what France actually built!

Love to see more of these, perhaps a French version of Fisher's INCOMPARABLE or some super dreadnought?

I really like those battlecruiser designs.

I planned to make a French WWI battlecruiser. Looks like you beat me to it.

Edit: Feel free to use the underwater hull of my Bratagne/Courbet. It doesn`t matter from which one you chose as the hull of both are identical.

Garlicdesign, I must admit that You've made a truly impressive enter into SB.
Splendid work!

Your first BC very much looks like my Paper/ink drawing of the Drouyn de Lhuys class. Yes I named mine after 19c. statesmen. I can help you with the underwater hulls, if you desire. Btw, is your main caliber the 240mm gun or larger? I equipped my BC with 12 of that gun, Tu machinery and approx 25,5 knots.

_________________
My Avatar:Петр Алексеевич Безобразов (Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov), Вице-адмирал , царская ВМФ России(1845-1906) - I sign my drawings as Ari Saarinen