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JSB
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 22nd, 2015, 11:04 am
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Apdsmith,
Can you swap misc weight for a longer/deeper belt ? (and torpedo bulkhead, how wide is your TDS ? and length wise 541.34 ft - 297.74 ft = 243.6ft not covered )
Quote:
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
....Miscellaneous weights: 2,258 tons, 11.3 %
and do you need such a strong - Armour deck: 3.15" / 80 mm and Conning tower: 15.75" / 400 mm ?

Looking forward to seeing it. :geek:


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apdsmith
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 22nd, 2015, 11:59 am
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Hi elft, JSB,

Yeah, that was somewhat excessive, I've updated the numbers - I'd not put in any upper belt figures, it's now a more homogenous layer of armour that fits in with the hull casemate guns, taken out of misc weight, also taken the opportunity to reduce the draft somewhat. Revised figures in original post.

Regards,
Adam

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JSB
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 22nd, 2015, 12:05 pm
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Re "Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces" how long does it want to fit in ?

It should tell you near top of the armour page in spring sharp ?


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apdsmith
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 22nd, 2015, 1:04 pm
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Hi JSB,

See, that's the puzzling thing - my maths must be off, but, hull length, 165m, bow is 25%, quarterdeck is 20% (NSWE ships have to be very seaworthy, Cape Horn is right there...), leaving 55% for citadel ... 55% of 165m is ... 90.75m, the belt length. Have I missed something really obvious?

Oh, also, deck armour - it's as thick as it is because those were the figures I could find for Nassau - does seem a little excessive, though, given the era, doesn't it?

Ad

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JSB
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 22nd, 2015, 1:10 pm
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apdsmith wrote:
Hi JSB,

See, that's the puzzling thing - my maths must be off, but, hull length, 165m, bow is 25%, quarterdeck is 20% (NSWE ships have to be very seaworthy, Cape Horn is right there...), leaving 55% for citadel ... 55% of 165m is ... 90.75m, the belt length. Have I missed something really obvious?
But do your Mags and ER/BR fit inside that citadel !
It may be just telling you that everything doesn't fit inside that citadel, rather than it not being as big as you think it is.....

I think normal length is a fixed % of water line length (so you don't sink with flooded ends)

The warning that it doesn't fit is volume based as making the TDS thicker makes you need a longer citadel (it gives you the length needed at top of the armour page on my version of spring sharp)
Quote:
Oh, also, deck armour - it's as thick as it is because those were the figures I could find for Nassau - does seem a little excessive, though, given the era, doesn't it?
It may be the average of a thinner deck and thicker sloping edge parts ?


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apdsmith
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 22nd, 2015, 2:16 pm
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Ah-ha, lightbulb moment. Thank you, will update accordingly. I'm almost a metre and a half off - this being the first WWI design I've done, clearly the "stock" NSWE WWII designs take full advantage of smaller, more efficient machinery.

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 22nd, 2015, 8:17 pm
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In my AU I have a country 'Scandinavia' which is Norway, Sweden and Finland combined in a monarchy that is large enough to produce its own battleships. This is their opening first dreadnought class battleship. HSMS Norge completed in 1914 with three triple 12" as the main armament. At 527 feet long it was not huge. 20,000 ton normal displacement. Armour was modest with 10" belt armour and 2" of deck armour. The propulsion system produced 27,000shp for 22 knots. The Scandinavian ships were expected to operate close to home and range was only 3000 miles at 12 knots. Where they did have innovation over their contemporaries was that their secondary 6" guns were carried in single turrets.

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bezobrazov
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 22nd, 2015, 9:13 pm
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For this I'd add the whaleback and an icebreaker stem - or at least why not making a variant thereof?

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 22nd, 2015, 10:11 pm
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I would have a look at the Swedish Sverige class, and one of the Norwegian coastal defense ships, perhaps that one Norway never got.. Bjorgvin class. One thing, Scandinavian Coastline is Extreme long, Just those old Coastal defense ships Norway had, had more than 6000 Nautical miles range (and already that was short range for Norway). And a ship as you have drawn would go past Norway's admiralty and I bet the Swedish will also see the problem with so short range. For a ship of this size that will be the back bone of any Scandinavian fleet, need endurance.


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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 1:28 am
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Thanks for the comments, Ari, Heuhen, I will have a look at those points and rework it a bit. Maybe make the propulsion smaller and use the extra space for more bunkerage, longer range. Ari, I will have a look at what was fitted to Sverige class and see what is what.


Several hours later:

I have added the bows of the Sverige and Bjorgvin. Neither of them look that good. The current bow is off one of KHT's Swedish AU BB's "Svealand" class.

Looking at the size of the ship I have probably given it too much power (27k) for 22 knots. It would be able to make the same speed at 24,000shp. Gives a smaller propulsion system and I do have a bit of spare miscellaneous space that could be used up with extra bunkerage. If the ship(s) served as long as the Sverige class, converting them to oil firing in the 20's will recover a bit of space too. I could probably double the original range figure to 6000nm at 10 knots. Changing it to oil firing would also increase the range in the 1920's.


With Sverige bow. Now slightly longer (bit more space for coal) 530 feet.

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