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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 26th, 2015, 3:59 am
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Joined: July 27th, 2010, 2:39 am
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Thanks Krakatoa. In a quick burst, I've finished both the dreadnought and the... well, I guess both dreadnoughts.

First up, this little gem that I created for this challenge. It took me a while to warm up to it, but once I added some color and my design style to it, I quite like it now.
[ img ]
Yes, it's called BB-? as I'm still trying to figure out how to integrate it into my BB numbering system.

A brief history: After receipt of the Saarbrucken and Innsbruck pre-dreadnoughts in 1898, the DN finally had a capable ocean-going battleship. However, their service life was quite short, as they were soon made obsolete by the rapid advances in naval technology at the time. They were quickly out armored, out paced, and, by sheer number, outgunned. After the appearance of HMS Dreadnought, which set the standard for later ships, the DN knew it would not be able to keep up with these fast, heavily armed ships, and decide to take action. With approval to dip into the emergency fund, the DN created basic requirements for the design of their new 'dreadnought' and contracted the design and building work to the rapidly growing East Haven Federal Shipyard. The EHFS was the primary builder for most of the DN's ships, from the torpedo boats, all the way up to one of the larger Armored cruisers. EHFS therefore had the capability to build such a large and revolutionary ship. After design work was done, however, it was found the EHFS could theoretically build the dreadnought, but it would take more than 5 years to build and commission it with it's limited facilities, so it was instead contracted to Newport News Shipbuilding (which built all of Denton's battleships. All of them). The keel was laid down in early 1906 and the hull was launched in 1908. After being steamed to Denton for outfitting (as was standard), she was named Concord, and commissioned in 1909. This is also when the Saarbrucken and Innsbruck were sent to the reserve fleet and used for training exercises.

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*Saarbrucken and Innsbruck may be pushed back a number, to BB-1 and BB-2, to allow Concord the designation BB-3
DNS Concord, Denton Dreadnought laid down 1907

Displacement:
15,958 t light; 17,037 t standard; 18,155 t normal; 19,049 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
496.00 ft / 496.00 ft x 84.00 ft x 25.50 ft (normal load)
151.18 m / 151.18 m x 25.60 m x 7.77 m

Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1907 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1907 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
14 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1907 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (8x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1907 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, 1 raised mount - superfiring
Weight of broadside 11,459 lbs / 5,198 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 105
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 336.00 ft / 102.41 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 8.00" / 203 mm 160.00 ft / 48.77 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 12.0" / 305 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
3rd: 7.00" / 178 mm - 7.00" / 178 mm
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.25" / 32 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,555 ihp / 13,842 Kw = 19.00 kts
Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,012 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
781 - 1,016

Cost:
£2.050 million / $8.201 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,432 tons, 7.9 %
Armour: 5,618 tons, 30.9 %
- Belts: 2,541 tons, 14.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 2,195 tons, 12.1 %
- Armour Deck: 703 tons, 3.9 %
- Conning Tower: 179 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,062 tons, 11.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,766 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,197 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,020 lbs / 7,267 Kg = 18.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.598
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.90 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.27 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 13.80 ft / 4.21 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.4 %
Waterplane Area: 30,418 Square feet or 2,826 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 85 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 817 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.40
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
After the commissioning of DNS Concord, Denton was still looking for more firepower, and since design had still changed drastically in the previous 4 years, there were now several attractive options for the DN, which included the moving of the wing turrets to the centerline and the use of superfiring turrets. Setting some basic requirements, which included the use of the new 14" guns and at least 5x twin turrets, the DN accepted submissions for designs of the next battleship class. After much review and consideration, the DN settled on two designs, one with a 6 turret layout, and the other with a 5 turret layout.

[ img ]
The first design called for 6 turrets, with 3 superfiring. It was much longer than the original specifications called for, but it was still the same beam and draught, which allowed it to fit in the canal locks then in use (the locks that led to Lake Haven, the location of EHFS and Lock Haven).
Fort Albany Class Proposed, Denton Dreadnought laid down 1911

Displacement:
29,355 t light; 31,245 t standard; 33,823 t normal; 35,887 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
643.75 ft / 642.00 ft x 93.00 ft x 27.50 ft (normal load)
196.21 m / 195.68 m x 28.35 m x 8.38 m

Armament:
12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
Main guns limited to end-on fire
21 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
21 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 17,902 lbs / 8,120 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 404.00 ft / 123.14 m 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
Ends: 9.00" / 229 mm 154.00 ft / 46.94 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
84.00 ft / 25.60 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 9.00" / 229 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 38,135 ihp / 28,448 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,642 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
1,246 - 1,621

Cost:
£3.262 million / $13.047 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,238 tons, 6.6 %
Armour: 12,354 tons, 36.5 %
- Belts: 5,152 tons, 15.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 4,226 tons, 12.5 %
- Armour Deck: 2,706 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 270 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,534 tons, 7.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,130 tons, 35.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,468 tons, 13.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
43,364 lbs / 19,670 Kg = 31.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 3.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.721
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.90 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.34 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 4.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 20.96 ft / 6.39 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.5 %
Waterplane Area: 48,755 Square feet or 4,529 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 892 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.30
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[ img ]
[ img ]
The second design was a 5 turret design, submitted as a modified New York Class battleship, which was then undergoing funding approval in the United States. It was the battleship that fit the most requirements as laid down by the DN, and so was chosen to be the next class of 2 battleships. The two were to be built in Newport News, right alongside their sister ship, BB-35 Texas.
Fort Albany Class, Denton Dreadnought laid down 1911

Displacement:
23,892 t light; 25,453 t standard; 27,086 t normal; 28,392 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
565.50 ft / 565.50 ft x 95.25 ft x 27.50 ft (normal load)
172.36 m / 172.36 m x 29.03 m x 8.38 m

Armament:
10 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
17 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
17 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (4x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 15,016 lbs / 6,811 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 300.00 ft / 91.44 m 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
Ends: 9.00" / 229 mm 265.00 ft / 80.77 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 9.00" / 229 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 34,004 ihp / 25,367 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 7,300nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,939 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
1,055 - 1,372

Cost:
£2.729 million / $10.917 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,877 tons, 6.9 %
Armour: 9,797 tons, 36.2 %
- Belts: 4,487 tons, 16.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 2,808 tons, 10.4 %
- Armour Deck: 2,269 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 233 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,259 tons, 8.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,818 tons, 36.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,194 tons, 11.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29,724 lbs / 13,482 Kg = 21.7 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 3.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 16.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.640
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.78 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.50 ft / 8.08 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Mid (45 %): 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 16.81 ft / 5.12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.1 %
Waterplane Area: 40,885 Square feet or 3,798 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 182 lbs/sq ft or 889 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.35
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

-Ethan

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 26th, 2015, 6:46 am
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That first dreadnought really looks the part, good work.


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 26th, 2015, 7:48 am
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Joined: July 31st, 2010, 10:07 am
There is some very nice work here with some great looking designs.

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 27th, 2015, 3:24 am
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Joined: July 27th, 2010, 2:39 am
Location: Amberley, Salide
My last submission for this challenge.

A little bit later for the challenge, but laid down at the beginning of 1908, launched in 1910 and commissioned in early 1912. This is also my first British-ey capital ship.
[ img ]

Salide struggled to keep up with ship development. It's earlier class of 3 pre-dreadnoughts were quickly obsolete and Salide, while having the shipbuilding capability, did not have the manpower or resources needed to build and scrap multiple battleships within a decade of being built. With the arrival of the revolutionary HMS Dreadnought, the RSN worked on many different design proposals, each growing bigger and more complicated than the last. They primarily focused on longevity, and trying to look forward in time to anticipate naval technology developments. The RSN finally settled on a design that was deemed the most appropriate for the time. They opted for 5 turrets, arranged on the centerline, in a superfiring configuration that had only been used on several ships before. Alongside it's 13" armament, it carried 16x 6" guns as secondary armament, supplemented with 8x 3" guns for anti-TB work. The design parameters dictated that the ship be faster than conventional battleships, a fast battleship, and the ship could make just over 24 knots in trials.
Two ships were to be built, however, only Isabella VI was finished. The other, which had not been named yet, was about 30% complete when it was cancelled.

The ship was named after Queen Isabella VI, who had abdicated (due to health reasons) just before the ship's launch.

HSMS Isabella VI, Salide Dreadnought laid down 1908

Displacement:
19,529 t light; 20,767 t standard; 21,735 t normal; 22,509 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
541.00 ft / 541.00 ft x 89.25 ft x 26.75 ft (normal load)
164.90 m / 164.90 m x 27.20 m x 8.15 m

Armament:
10 - 13.00" / 330 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,098.50lbs / 498.27kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,821 lbs / 5,816 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110
4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 328.00 ft / 99.97 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 5.00" / 127 mm 213.00 ft / 64.92 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 49,602 shp / 37,003 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 5,300nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,742 tons (40% coal)

Complement:
894 - 1,163

Cost:
£2.394 million / $9.575 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,603 tons, 7.4 %
Armour: 6,883 tons, 31.7 %
- Belts: 2,253 tons, 10.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 2,488 tons, 11.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,940 tons, 8.9 %
- Conning Tower: 201 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,600 tons, 12.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,385 tons, 38.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,206 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20,434 lbs / 9,269 Kg = 18.6 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.99

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.589
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.26 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (40 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 17.28 ft / 5.27 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.6 %
Waterplane Area: 34,952 Square feet or 3,247 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 176 lbs/sq ft or 859 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.53
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

-Ethan

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Drawings are signed as E.Z. Goin - Please feel free to call me EZ or Ethan


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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 27th, 2015, 6:33 am
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Nice work Ethan,
Good to see the Salidians made a few mistakes in their designs too. That funnel in front of the tripod is certainly going to give a problem in the future. The other thing that the Isabella might like is a bit more armour below the waterline. The 13" gun size is good, and the secondary armament is powerful enough. Though Salide will find that the forward 6" blister will be unworkable in any kind of seaway. Overall a very workable design that will be able to be upgraded to WW2 standards.


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 27th, 2015, 8:42 pm
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I had my own little play some time ago, at that time I drew Bjorgvin class Coastal defense ships. so why not post it... for other to play it with. The armament are 9.45" and 5,87" guns. But what the 9.45" have in advantage over 12-14" is greater range, so you have the capability to engage at longer range. but keeping the the ship outside the range....

[ img ]


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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 27th, 2015, 10:39 pm
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Looks an interesting start Heuhen,

Would those be single or twin 9.45/9,2. The extra long range guns were the sleeved down 9,2". I think a twin forward and two twins superfiring aft would be good for the mains, then leave 'B' superfiring twin 6" then two twins down each side. Give an armament of 6x9.2 and 10x6". Might need slightly larger dimensions, especially if you want to increase the speed.


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 28th, 2015, 12:01 am
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Krakatoa wrote:
Looks an interesting start Heuhen,

Would those be single or twin 9.45/9,2. The extra long range guns were the sleeved down 9,2". I think a twin forward and two twins superfiring aft would be good for the mains, then leave 'B' superfiring twin 6" then two twins down each side. Give an armament of 6x9.2 and 10x6". Might need slightly larger dimensions, especially if you want to increase the speed.

Yeah that what I might have done in the end. But that time I designed it I used the same armament as Bjorgvin class. weaker on the secondary side though, but with increased length for the needed speed, could also give space for early light weight guns for shooting at faster targets.

But with the armament solution you listing and with the extra length in the hull, and if she was build for Norway, where she can use the advantage to stay inside fjords and behinds islands. She would be a damn irritation to any opponent, and in some cases quit dangerous. So long she use the advantages she have, and not getting cornered...


Put this one a little fast, with some of you'r suggestion, just to see how it can look like:
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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: June 28th, 2015, 12:04 am
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That's it exactly - like a mini-battlecruiser - fast and hard hitting.


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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Challenge "My Countries First Dreadnought" 1905-10Posted: July 13th, 2015, 3:04 am
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With Kilomouses kind permission I have altered his Hercules class Armoured cruiser design to produce Lisenias first dreadnought cruiser.

The Hercules was laid down in July 1906, and the follow up second cruiser Pegaso was to be laid down in December 1906. However the completion and revelation to the world of the Dreadnought, made all of the slower armoured cruisers as well as the pre-dreadnought battleships obsolete. The Pegaso was delayed while the design was recast to bring the ship up to a dreadnought cruiser standard. More powerful boilers and turbines were to be fitted to increase the speed out to 25-26 knots over the 23-24 knots of the Hercules. The larger longer hull helped in achieving and maintaining the better speeds. The main armament was standardised with the 10" guns of the same mark as the earlier Hercules. Instead of four guns, the Pegaso was to mount ten. Single 10" replaced the twin 7.5" broadside turrets and a new twin turret was mounted in a superfiring position aft.

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The ship completed in 1912, but because it was armed with 10" little notice was taken of the new ship. All eyes were on the race between the German and British fleets to outbuild each other. One country did take notice as the Japanese armoured cruisers of the Tsukuba and Kurama types paled in comparison to Lisenias new battlecruiser. The Japanese reply with the four Kongo class completely outclassed Lisenias pride and joy.

Lisenia could not afford to build and maintain many large ships and so the ships they had, had to do many years of extra service compared to their peers in other navies. To keep the ship up to date, it was returned to Italy in 1935 for an eighteen month refit to upgrade the fire control equipment, and to add an anti-aircraft armament that had been sadly lacking for the previous ten years. The propulsion system was refreshed (not replaced). The funnels were trunked together, while the bridge structure was remade after the latest Italian cruiser style and fitted with the latest director equipment. Four twin 3.9" mountings were fitted around the new funnel. Five twin 37mm mountings would provide the main cannon AA, with lighter 13.2mm machine guns to round out the armament. In this guise the Pegaso served for another 15 years for Lisenia.

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