Shipbucket

years ago, when I joined sb, I joined with an AU. looking back that AU was kind of rubbish (from storyline to (ship) design) but over the years I have done work improving both. soon I will start an new thread in the AU section, but as I wanted to post some finished designs already out of context......... I decided to start an small thread here.

the first design shown here is an design which is also the first class of ships of the main AU nation. these vessels were meant to be cheaply build, mass production semi-planing 50m vessels, capable of doing different tasks for future growth space. these ships defended the sovereignty of the still starting nation (as a nation without any armaments is a prey to weak to miss) but did mostly coast guard tasks operationally. mine sweeping and mine laying was also possible (hence the large empty rear deck, containerized modules for both these roles were designed to be fitted there).

the aft superstructure has hatches on both sides for torpedo tubes to be added on both sides. however, not all ships carry these and when carried, only at one side. this is because these torpedo tubes interfere with the modular usage of the aft superstructure (1 torpedo tube means only one container aft instead of 2, while that torpedo tube can not be reloaded when that container is there) while the submarine thread was considered very low.
interesting is the use of an open bridge and pilothouse underneath. the open bridge has a steering position as well, but this is only used during in-port ship handling. at sea, the bridge is used for watch keeping mostly, although command officers often used it as conning position when the weather is good.

the crew consisted of 25 men only, which could be expanded by an crew of 10 for the modular payload. the top speed was 28 knots, of which 24 in all weather conditions. 16 were build.

the initial ships were diesel propelled, but later vessels of the series got gas turbines, harpoon missiles and Oto Melara 76mm guns, closed bridges and the ability to be replenished at sea, to serve as fast attack craft. these ships lost the ability to have the modular payload though. 8 of these were build.

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

and a small teaser for what kind of thought and effort goes into at least some of my ship designs

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

Very nice teaser.
The bow on PG class looks huge, but considering Your education, I suppose You know better.

there are 3 reasons why the bow of the PG class is huge. one is seakeeping, keeping the deck dry under almost all conditions and so allowing operations in all those conditions. the second is damage, the large hull volume keeps her floating even when damaged. the 3rd is space, I could have gotten away with a flush decked design with the same systems, but then I would have to house the crew on land.

in short, the reason for the high bow is that I wanted 2 full decks above the knuckle (which is just below the waterline on most of the vessel) in as much of the ship as possible.

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

Also, first years of education may quide thinking "you'll know the all". That's not the fact So. if you know a lot, you cannot know all...

Well...Such high bow with such short hull calling it ''seakeeping'' is quite.. I wish the crew good luck with seasickness.
If you will be sailing this vessel during rough weather, you will notice how clumsy this vessel will be. Especially if the waves come to the side. Not to note drag made by the wind.
But these details you will only know if you actually sail.

I call bullshit!
please tell me how people on the Alkmaar class minehunter of almost exactly the same size and a slightly larger and higher side area (less hull, more superstructure) are always seasick in rough weather? please also tell me of your experience on board semi-displacement vessels? and please also note how a vessel with a lower hull would be more comfortable while the deck is awash and you have to move from the stern to the bow over the machinery spaces (with no superstructure deck over them)

while the wind area does influence the movement of the ship, stability does a lot more in this respect. against waves, a higher hull is only an issue when you make the hull low enough for the waves to go over your hull, otherwise a higher hull has absolutely no influence on the waves coming from the side. a deeper hull would, but this is again the same as the alkmaar class minehunter while the ship is lighter and will move easier over the waves instead of standing in their way. note also that the area of the part of the hull out of the water has an point of application close to that of the underwater hull volume. this means the ship will keep on course even under influence of hard wind. the relatively large beam required for the semi-planing hull shape and the relatively low center of gravity make these vessels quite stable too, making her movements slow and comfortable.

but, those factors you only know if you know how ship design works.

on a sidenote, I sense a lot of hostility from you, which I do not know why I deserve that. could you speak out why? as with all due respect, but I'd like to leave hostilities behind in the era I battled with mitch every few months

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

The Alkmaar class can sail up to sea state 5, but it has active stabilization.
A higher hull usually means it will catch more wind. at least my experience with the Karel Doorman. So i'm not sure how this will translate to a smaller vessel.

People tend to get seasick regardless of the vessel, if the sea is rough enough you get seasick.
If the deck is awash you would not go outside, simply not permitted. (Fire etc. left out)

Thing i would change/add
-Front cannon blocks view from the bridge.
-It only has a front gun position, if it were to be used for patrol/inspection taks i would have a few .50 mounts.
-The radar is next to the open bridge, sterilizing everyone on it.
-No MOB equipment (probably due to WIP)
-No Survival at sea equipment. (probably due to WIP)

My 2 Cents
They look great though!

I think we agree on the conditions, the high hull is to keep the hull from getting awash

as for your list of changes:
- the cannon blocks the steering position, but not the (open) bridge
- .50 mountings are of course on board but are not always fixed in position (as on dutch navy ships) so I left them out on this drawing.
- the radars field of radiation (so to speak) goes over the people on the bridge (by careful design of the antenna )
- the last 2 points are good ones, I indeed forgot that. will have to return to these to fix that soon!

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

So i have been learning about Above water warfare today, funnily enough.

So a few points.
I'm not sure what your type of terrain is but for a Hit 'n run attack style your vessel is too slow in open water. (for this day and age)
your vessel becomes an real threat around 35 knts. having said so the norwegian vessels don't go this fast but they operate in the fjords.

If you want to use them as FAC, you would need to make a decisions on whether to use them for Security tasks or FAC role.
Why? you want your security vessels spread out to catch the most criminals, but you want FAC's close together to jump into action ASAP. they need to saturate the enemy with missiles.

Now my opinion is have 2 separate batches.
1. Security and Short range engangement boat (keep the 76mm remove the Harpoons)
This will still make them an viable option for Hit 'n Run but, only to support batch number 2 in combat, and will once again allow a modular load.
Also you could have a crane and a RHIB onboard for boarding party's

2. Long range engangement, remove the forward gun, keep the Harpoons.
This would probably make them faster and more suited for the Hit 'n run style. while lacking the gun it's salvo size should pack a punch. having 3 of these could possibly overwhelm an udaloy class.

Also add CHAFF, this will increase their life expectancy.

Waiting for your opinion