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Krakatoa
Post subject: Graf Von Roon Class CruisersPosted: May 17th, 2017, 2:15 am
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Thanks to Maomatic for doing such a superb drawing of the Panzerschiff design line.

There was a lot of design work undertaken between the real life Deutschland Class Panzerschiff and the Scharnhorst Class Battleships. In the Germanic States realm that I have and the DP Kriegsmarine, the Panzerschiff feature 6 x 13.8" in two triple turrets and the Scharnhorst type may go to 9 x 13.8" (or even 8x16") depending on what I do with the French answer to the Panzerschiff. It will probably get worse before it gets better, and as I dream up more and more different types of vessels that could fit into these realms. Anyway to the Roons.

With the first of the Deutschland class at sea and two more building, the design for ships four to six was to be enlarged to make them more capable, with better staying power. One of the original designs was just an enlarged Admiral Scheer which while better still had many of the same faults.

[ img ]

Length CWL: 207,00m
Length 209,05m
Beam: 25m
Draft: 7,7m

Displacement: 18.000 - 19.000 tons

Propulsion: Turbines ca. 70,000 shp - 2 shafts
Speed: ca 26 knots

Armament:
6 x 28cm (2x3)
8 x 15cm (4x2)
10 x 8,8cm (5x2)
8 x 3,7cm (4x2)
8 x 53cm torpedo tubes (2x4)

The next design in the series enlarged the dimensions and displacement again and altered the layout to fit another triple turret aft. The doctrine for these ships would be to flee from any ship or group of ships that could inflict serious damage to the ship. Having six guns aft would increase their chances of escape. Other improvements included the raising of the freeboard by a meter, the fitting of aircraft handling facilities and an even more powerful propulsion system.

[ img ]

Displacement: 20,000 tons standard, 28,400 tons full load
Dimensions: 707.5 x 90 x 27 feet (215.7 x 27.4 x 8.2m)
Machinery: 2 shaft, MAN diesels, 100,000bhp
Speed: 30 knots
Endurance: 18,000 nmi at 15 knots
Armour: 6.7" belt, 3.4" deck, 8.2"/4.1"/3.4" turrets
Armament:
9 x 11" (3x3)
8 x 5.9" (4x2)
8 x 88mm (4x2)
8 x 37mm (4x2)
10 x 20mm (10x1)
Torpedoes: 8 x 21" (2x4)
Aircraft: 2
Crew: 1,400


What eventually got to sea in late 1938 added even more improvements including a new 'Atlantic' bow, redesigned bridge structure to mount the new AA directors.

[ img ]

Displacement: 21,000 tons standard, 30,100 tons full load
Dimensions: 726 x 90 x 27 feet (221.3 x 27.4 x 8.2m)
Machinery: 2 shaft, MAN diesels, 100,000bhp
Speed: 30 knots
Endurance: 18,000 nmi at 15 knots
Armour: 6.7" belt, 3.4" deck, 8.2"/4.1"/3.4" turrets
Armament:
9 x 11" (3x3)
8 x 5.9" (4x2)
8 x 88mm (4x2)
8 x 37mm (4x2)
12 x 20mm (12x1)
Torpedoes: 8 x 21" (2x4)
Aircraft: 2
Crew: 1,400


Last in this series of drawings is the DP Kriegsmarine version where the 5.9" and 88mm are replaced with 5"/128mm dual purpose weapons.

[ img ]

Displacement: 21,000 tons standard, 30,100 tons full load
Dimensions: 726 x 90 x 27 feet (221.3 x 27.4 x 8.2m)
Machinery: 2 shaft, MAN diesels, 100,000bhp
Speed: 30 knots
Endurance: 18,000 nmi at 15 knots
Armour: 6.7" belt, 3.4" deck, 8.2"/4.1"/3.4" turrets
Armament:
9 x 11" (3x3)
16 x 5.1" (8x2)
10 x 37mm (5x2)
12 x 20mm (12x1)
Torpedoes: 8 x 21" (2x4)
Aircraft: 2
Crew: 1,400


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maomatic
Post subject: Re: Graf Von Roon Class CruisersPosted: May 17th, 2017, 6:26 pm
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Interesting and well done!

I did notice that your "bloated Panzerschiffe" (that's supposedly how Adm. Raeder called the designs) have a weaker belt armour of ~ 170mm compared to the intended 220mm. Is that done intentionally to reduce weight for the incorporation of the Diesels and the third turret?


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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Graf Von Roon Class CruisersPosted: May 17th, 2017, 8:47 pm
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Thanks for your comment Maomatic.

Yes the armour belt was intentional. To defeat the French 13" would have required 260-280mm belt which would have taken the ship right up to the Scharnhorst sized dimensions. The 170mm belt and 88mm deck will comfortably stop any of the 8" shells including the larger US ones. While the larger hull does allow for almost double the size of the diesel installation. The trade off between thicker armour or larger diesel installation. The age old problem with 'large' cruisers. Which one gets priority.


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Calis
Post subject: Re: Graf Von Roon Class CruisersPosted: May 18th, 2017, 1:35 am
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Very well done


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Graf Von Roon Class CruisersPosted: May 18th, 2017, 8:46 am
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These are very interesting developments of the Panzerschiffe concept.
I was toying with an AU idea recently which included a non-Nazi Germany and my thoughts were that the Reichsmarine might have completed D & E and possibly a sixth ship as a further improvement rather with something as large as Scharnhost being politically and economically impossible. These designs would fit the bill nicely in most cases.

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DG_Alpha
Post subject: Re: Graf Von Roon Class CruisersPosted: May 18th, 2017, 4:40 pm
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An Interesting variantion of the concept, nice work.

You can use the real Coat of Arms for Roon if you want to.

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Graf Von Roon Class CruisersPosted: May 18th, 2017, 8:35 pm
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Thanks to all for your comments.

@DG_Alpha, thanks for the pointer to the coat of arms for the 1905 Roon. I had looked in the COA forum but did not see one in there for the Roon. So I used the Prussian eagle as the Roon's had been Presidents (?) of Prussia. Drawings updated.

Edit:
Aha! found it, I was looking in the wrong thread.


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advertrevenue
Post subject: Re: Graf Von Roon Class CruisersPosted: May 19th, 2017, 7:43 am
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Joined: February 25th, 2017, 9:27 pm
I really like your work, well done!


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Zagor01
Post subject: Re: Graf Von Roon Class CruisersPosted: May 19th, 2017, 8:26 am
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Impressive, most impressive.


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Tempest
Post subject: Re: Graf Von Roon Class CruisersPosted: May 20th, 2017, 6:19 pm
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Nice reworking! I really like the evolution of the drawing.

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