Shipbucket

Well, on the shipbucket discord there was some recent fun concerning Mk 13's. We noticed people having difficulty designing NATO frigates around them a few times, so a few of the 'older hands' decided to challenge each other to do something fun with an Mk 13 GMLS and see how difficult it actually was, what could be done, to both have fun and serve as an example for the future. I hope some of the others will post their work here too, I was proud of mine so here it is.

First of all, the thing I decided to do was actually pretty difficult! but here it is.

My idea was to make a ship as small as possible to still fit (and have use of) an Mk 13 GMLS, preferably still large enough to not have issues with 'shrinkwrapping' and the resulting issues with having to fit your systems into tight spaces making the ship more expensive.
For that reason, I chose a single shaft steam plant as base and gave the ship a top speed of just 26 knots. I gave myself no other requirements then an AAW escort, but the required hull ended up large enough to fit a small helideck and hangar (2 DASH or one Wasp), Mk 32 SVTT and 2 single 3in guns for any target not worth a missile. I fitted 2 directors and an SPS-48 3D radar to use the full potential of the Mk 13 as much as possible on such a small platform.

You might notice the kind of special arrangement. The Mk 13 is placed as far as possible aft, to give way for fine lines in the bow. This left little space for the pilothouse and affiliated spaces between the launcher and the air intakes/funnel, especially considering the need to place the SPG-51 director in that area as well. Because of that, the pilothouse is moved forwards. The pilothouse in turn is situated as high as possible to still give the Mk 13 a clear firing angle (based on hangars installed aft of Mk 13's) so the operation of the launcher is not limited. In fact, the firing angle is larger then would be the case if there was an full width superstructure aft of the launcher. The pilothouse poses restrictions on the height of the bow however, so the resulting vessel has little sheer. Instead, the ship has a chined flared out hull below main deck level, to keep the forecastle deck and pilothouse clear and dry. For navigation in restricted waters, an open bridge is situated around the air intake and SPG-51 structure amidships, from where it is easier to oversee the ship and its surroundings. Normally though the ship could be operated almost completely from enclosed spaces, in case of NBC risks.

The ship uses half a Gearing powerplant (although an lower pressure british Y100 plant would fit too) with 30000 shp. This allows the ship to reach 26 knots in operational conditions. Fire control is done by an Mk 74 FCS for the missiles and an Mk 56 FCS for the guns. Displacement would be about 2600 tons standard, 2900 full load. Year operational would be the early 1970's.
Operators would be allied navies which need second line escorts against air attacks. It would not be impossible for the USN to build these for an export nation or even operate her themselves, so I gave her the FFG-7 hull number later used for the Perry class.

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Tell me what you think, and I hope to see more results from the fooling around posted here

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I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
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To the detriment of my other projects, I was very hyped when this idea came up, so of course I dropped everything and cooked something up.

At first I wanted to do a fictional ship with "equivalent" systems, but after a couple of days I found an interesting subject I could develop.
Now, instead of basing myself on some of the Tribal proposals (at least one of which has already been done in SB and I didn't find in time) I concentrated exclusively on these two objectives while designing my Destroyer.



The ship is set for a commissioning date in 1972, same as the IRL Tribals, and is built around an eclectic mix of NATO equipment, centered around the Type 984, which was chosen for its ability to control the local airspace (and not wanting to use almost exclusively US equipment), which sits second only to the Signaal LW-02. I found that having a powerful 3D radar was vital to this ship's mission, and to take full advantage of the SM-1 (and later the SM-2). These are associated with the Mk 74 FCS and its two SPG-51 aft, directing for the Mk 13 launcher also aft. I thought important to have the 3D radar have the same arcs as the Terrier system since it would be doing target indication for it. Second and much further down in importance are the (in)famous Canadian Sea Sparrow launcher in front of the bridge, and two Vickers 4"/62 Mark Q autoguns, one on each end, both of which share the two side by side WM 20 eggs for direction. the Mark Q was chosen as a compromise between the bigger 5" OTO compact, which would've been too big to have two of, and the much more anemic 3" compact. I invite you to cast judgement on the usefulness of other gun systems here, but the gunhouse is certainly very aesthetic. Helicopter facilities have been completely dispensed with, seeing as just about every other RCN asset was very capable of bringing its own Sea King. Finally, the ASW suite is for self defence only. The powerplant is the same as the real Tribal, COGOG 2x FT4A boost turbines and 2x 570-KF cruise turbines.



I've also done a TRUMP refit equivalent, focusing on updating its main mission rather than shuffling it as in the real ships. It's similar to an NTU, centered around the Thales Nederland TACTICOS Combat Management System. The Type 984 has given way to a Type 1022 2D radar, which took priority due to its width, while the LW-08 is removed, the mast rebuilt and a much newer SPS-48E sits in its place. All directors are replaced with STIR series devices, the Canadian Sea Sparrow is replaced by Mk 48 VLS, and a Block 1B Phalanx is bolted on the only solid spot available, taking precedence over the Mk Q's firing arcs.

Overall I'm very satisfied with the results, but I invite you to pick it appart with glee, for everyone's enjoyment.

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w o r k l i s t :
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Both looking quite nice

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Both interesting concepts and well executed from an artistic perspective. I think the Tribal is particularly well-shaded, effectively showing shape without being overdone. Canadian ships of the period certainly had some interesting shaping to ward off icing. Was Type 984 really a plausible fit as late as the early 1970s?

During re-arranging some things it occurred to me that the large (for the time) anti-aircraft combatants to escort Glasic carriers built during the fifties really needed replacing in the mid 1970s with something along the same vein. As such I wondered to myself "how about a proto-Type 43"?
So, whilst my now late mother was in hospital over the past couple of weeks I started on drawing them as a way to fill the time between visits. This was what followed. Serving from 1977 to 2012 wherein they were replaced firstly by later-production Gemstones and latterly and more properly by the Badhbh-class.

The ships were centred around the Type 988 / SPS-01, initially with a secondary Type 967/968 set to operate with Seaflash but latterly with Type 996 / AWS-9. Initially armed with SM-1 the entire class would receive the necessary upgrades to their launchers and combat systems later on to be able to operate SM-2, the same happening with their inner layer systems, Seaflash being phased out for active Seaflash and eventually a ESSM type derivative of S225X. Unusually the ships were also equipped later in their lives with an ASRAAM derived 'daughter-of-SHIELD' system for use against saturation attacks where fire-control channels would be limited.

As with the Type 43 proper the class possessed an amidships flight-deck and hangar but unlike the Type 43 the class were only ever to routinely operate Lynxes, other aircraft only ever landing for replenishment or refuelling duties.




However, upon further reflection a Mk.26-based solution seemed to offer a better route, better rate-of-fire, ASROC capability and with the benefit of hindsight, adaptability to fitting of vertical launch systems. As such these represent the final product.

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AU Projects: | Federal Monarchy of Tír Glas| Other Ivernic Nations | Artemis Group |
Blood and Fire

Really nice derivates of Iroquois class Charguizard !

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Paul 2024

Sorry to hear about your offline news, Blackbuck. Your T43/13 is pretty attractive. I do think it suffers from a paucity of illuminators -- I know that the WM20s each offer a channel, but it's an uphill climb with such a small aperture. As I understand it (I don't recall the source), the FFG-7s found that the SPG-60-derived illuminator abaft the mast had quite a bit better practical range than the WM20 forward. I think I'd rather have more fire control channels and ditch the Sea Sparrow, on the thinking that Sea Sparrow is useful purely for self-defense, and the purpose of an escort is to protect what it's escorting!

In any case, the quality of the drawing is superb.

Some really interesting designs here.

Ace, as ever, is not unafraid to pursue novel layouts. As a design there is no reason why that layout wouldn't work. My only concern would be that the crew in the bridge block might be more prone to disorientation from seasickness (see DK Brown's studies on bridge location). Maybe a tad too many portholes in the hull too, but this looks quintessentially American in style.

Charguizard's alt-Tribal looks awesome. Added kudos for using the Vickers 4in mount. I keep trying to work it into my RN AU but never seem to be able to justify it so far. Fitting a 984 on anything is never easy, the arrangement here is probably the best that can be acheived. I would be a little weary of blocked arcs/interference with the radars on the foremast but I think that is unavoidable here.

Blackbuck's proto-T43 looks good too. As ever a lovely mix of systems. Chimes well with my own thoughts lately, mulling over a sea-based Skyflash and Shield for my own AU work and ruling them out for now, but they do make an interesting alternative pathway. Like Erik_T, I think its a bit light on fire-control but I know its not easy to squeeze everything in. Never been sold on the looks of the T43, but this is perhaps one of the best versions I have seen. I really like the 988/SPS-101 dome used here too.

I never get time to get on Discord but I probably should at some point!
I hope your mother has recovered Blackbuck.

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Thanks all.

The SPG-51s and latterly STIRs are arranged two abreast fore and aft much like the bridge directors on the Ticos so two directors per larger launcher seem quite reasonable to my eye?

I would in all honesty rather keep Seaflash if only to fulfil my desire for multiple layers of defence. It's certainly a possibility however to re-arrange the directors height-wise if one didn't have to concern themselves with Seaflash and its requirements.

Sadly Hood my mother passed away on the 26th from complications with chemotherapy aged 59, much more suddenly than anyone was expecting.

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AU Projects: | Federal Monarchy of Tír Glas| Other Ivernic Nations | Artemis Group |
Blood and Fire

I don't have any backstory as I was simply testing out my design language for cold war era ships.

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