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I Mast-ish thing
http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2313		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  josephw71 [ December 13th, 2011, 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  I Mast-ish thing
Not sure if this is the right place, but I was playing with an I Mast on a Spruance, not knowing it was too small. (This is how you learn these things) I was prompted by Raven to try to create my own I Mast 1000. so this is my own cobbled together idea for large ship all-in-one mast, see what other people think. It may be an awful idea, but nothing ventured nothing gained.
Author:  heuhen [ December 13th, 2011, 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I Mast-ish thing
why SPY-1 is it not almost the same as APAR which is almost the same as I-Mast
Author:  acelanceloet [ December 13th, 2011, 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I Mast-ish thing
OBJECTION!
@ heuhen: the only thing those 3 systems have in common is that they have air search functions.
APAR: missile director with secondary limited range air search as backup for the search radar.
SEAMASTER (the I-mast's air search radar): short to mid range air search radar with secondary director function
SPY-1: long range air search radar.
the radar fit makes some sense looking at the above: the mast has an air search radar and an director system. but then reality sets in......

first of all, this system does NOT fit in the I-mast series. it would be an separate system.
you called an navigation light an IR sensor!

then the problems with the design itself:
top weight is gonna be an major problem. I think you cannot place this mast on anything shorter then 150-200m, when placed amidships on top of 1 or 2 decks at max. both SPY-1 and APAR are heavy systems!
very unlikely you can effectively make APAR and SPY-1 work toghether as they are systems from different generations. also unlikely you would place them toghether at all!
only the right one will come close to working, and even on that one you will have 3 decks deck penetration for cooling and processing systems because the mast itself lacks space, seeing that the entire APAR mast is filled with these systems on the LCF. SPY-1 will most likely have not enough space as well, look at the norwegian nansen class frigate for the minimal size needed to fit that system.

I could say more, but I guess you get that this mast will most likely not work, and needs major reworking to get even close to getting it work.
Author:  sebu [ December 13th, 2011, 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I Mast-ish thing
First: thanks to Ace for clarifying current radar setup in short. As Jo said, this is a (one) way to learn things.

I've seen a lot of discussion about top weight here but do we have any tools to evaluate this? I mean, how high or how heavy a installation should be in order to affect ships seaworhiness considering its lenght and beam? Is this so heavy that it would need 150-200m ship?? I understand these systems need "support" like cooling and processing like Ace said but "penetration" in this context... we are talking about pipes and wires, right?

The expression "I-mast-ish" reveals (for me, at least) that there is not a current solution in hands, but some kind of future/AU-version, right? That make sense if we are referring revealed consepts of modern warships; a Meko CSL for example. How they have solved these problems in their concept?

All this is more or less "common sense"-thoughs but if you are going to shoot them down (as I quess you are), I'll require proper and spesific answers; with photos if possible. :) Remember, Shipbucket is also a learning forum, isn't it?
Author:  josephw71 [ December 13th, 2011, 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I Mast-ish thing
Continuing my radar mast education... I know these are off an older parts sheet, can someone identify these for me. Obviously some sort of radar masts, but what are its capabilities etc.?
Author:  TimothyC [ December 13th, 2011, 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I Mast-ish thing
Ok, the first three related to CEAFAR and CEAMOUNT. The panel size on the third is roughly accurate for CEAMOUNT. The fourth and Fifth were made-up drawings that date from before we really knew what SPY-3 was going to look like.

Edit: One thing to keep in mind if you use them (as they are drawn on the ANZAC class) is that CEAFAR is a 6-face system, while CEAMOUNT is a 4-face system. For Search range, I'd rank CEAFAR as probably similar to, if not inferior to APAR.

Edit 2: CEAFAR is not CEAPAR is not SEAPAR. It's all very confusing to the uninitiated.
Author:  josephw71 [ December 14th, 2011, 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I Mast-ish thing
Thanks, kinda' makes me want to go back to drawing dreadnaughts, just need a good set of optics there. ;)
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