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Cargil48
Post subject: My AU German navyPosted: January 13th, 2019, 7:44 pm
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Hi, there. Without too much smalltalk, I have a "story" regarding a different strory regarding the German KGM, its development and war envolvement. The baseline for "my story" (or AU, if you so prefer), resides on the fact that one of the attempted or intended assassinations on Hitler succeeded in late 1935, whereby General Rudolf-Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff together with two higher ranking officers of the Abwehr succeeds to kill in Berlin Hitler, Göring, and Himmler as well as four aides during a meeting in the Reichskanzlei by detonating a time bomb hidden inside a leather dcument case. After the following heavy fighting opposing the Wehrmacht to the SS, where Canaris and his secret service played a vital role, like Guderian and his armoured vehicle divisions, a new government is put up with General Erwin von Witzleben as Chancellor. Only nine months later, with thousands of emprisonments in concentration camps where until that point Jews had been incarcerated, the "Prussian part" of the Wehrmacht succeeds to eliminate the remaining nazi leaders like Goebbels and Heydrich. So far for the political part, let's not get into further details and instead concentrate on the changes operated in the German Kriegsmarine by the new government.

In mid-1936, the following ships existed already or were in the process of being built:
- Old Deutschlandklasse battleships: Schleswig-Holstein and Schlesien (both built in 1906 and obsolete in 1936)
- Heavy cruisers: Admiral Hipper, Blücher and Prinz Eugen (all laid down in 1935);
- New Deutschloand class: Lützow, Admiral Scheer and Admiral Graf Spee
- Six light cruisers (Emden.class, Königsberg-class and Leipzig-classes, all built under the old technical know-how)
- Destroyers Z1-Z4 (1934 class), Z5 - Z16 (1934a-class) and the construction of the six "Z17-class" destroyers was imminent
- A bigger and more capable type of destroyer was already planned, the Z-23 class (or 1936a) with 15 units in consideration
- Torpedoboote of the 1935-class: 12 built, T1 to T12
- Submarines: In 1936 the new Type VII class of submarines was being launched at several of the German shipyards

The year before, even fighting a bloody civil war, Germany had signed with the UK the so-called AGNA, or Anglo-German Naval Agreement, giving Germany more room to build bigger ships for its navy, which fixed a ratio whereby the total tonnage of the Kriegsmarine was to be 35% of the total tonnage of the Royal Navy on a permanent basis. It was an ambitious attempt on the part of both London and Berlin to reach better relations, since it had become obvious that the infamous "Versailles Treaty" could only lead to a seize of power like the one the nazis did, the results of which were clearly visible: another dictatorship, and one with the outspoken goal of destroying the URSS. And that meant war again for Europe...

The agreement with the UK allowed Germany to build up to 21 cruisers, 64 destroyers and in fact an unlimited number of submarines. What the agreement did not determine was how the fulfillment of the terms would be controlled and by whom and it did not prevent the German KGM from modernizing its existing battleships and thus immediately the German Admiralty ordered plans to be worked out to take use of the hulls of the two existing old battleships Schleswig-Holstein and Schlesien, adding new bows and sterns to improve their seagoing capabilities as well as the propulsion systems and obviously the weaponry.

One ammendment Berlin got from London shortly after the treaty was signed was to exchange the capability of building two cruisers for one aircraft carrier of about the same combined tonnage (2 x 15.000 tons = 30.000 tons). This is were the plans for building the "Graf Zeppelin" aircraft carrier began to take form. Germany had already seen the vital role of this new kind of ship and the fact that the UK in 1936 had a total of seven carriers and some more in different kinds of planning and/or building made the Germans eager to gain experience with such a kind of ship. This is how in 1936 plans began to be made to build a carrier to be named "Graf Zeppelin" with a gross tonnage of about 30 to 32.000 tonnes.


Last edited by Cargil48 on February 9th, 2019, 8:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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emperor_andreas
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 13th, 2019, 8:06 pm
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Sounds interesting! Can't wait to see some drawings!

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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 13th, 2019, 10:45 pm
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emperor_andreas wrote: *
Sounds interesting! Can't wait to see some drawings!
Thanks for the support. But first let me tell you that my aim is trying with you guys to see what would the German industry had been able to achieve, if the political leadership then would have taken the correct decisions, independently of a war, maybe even without a war but with fierce technical competition between the UK, the USA and Germany, maybe Japan as well. Here I think mostly about thye radar development... what equipment would the main German ships have had if Telefunken and all the others would have had at least sdome support from the side of the government, regarding the FuMOs and correlated equipment? What if Germany would have gotten the technics around the proximity fuses of the AA shells the Americans and the British had from a certain moment on? What if Germany would have been able to develop a magnetic warhead to guide their torpedos and afterwards ship launched V1 rockets? These are more the aspects I'd like to discuss with you... Because a realistic scenario for a "hard testing" on battlefields I will put here, no worries...


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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 14th, 2019, 6:17 pm
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Excuse my asking: For uploading pictures here it is necessary to use Photobucket, right? And the pics now have on the left lower corner a black label of that company, correct? (Post will be deleted when someone takes the time to enlighten me on this subject...)


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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 14th, 2019, 8:21 pm
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No - you can use any image host. Imgur.com is the best one that's still available. Do not use Photobucket if you can avoid it.

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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 14th, 2019, 11:10 pm
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Test: Not succeded...


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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 14th, 2019, 11:29 pm
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(Due to a total review of the AU DKM I've made, I take out the project of the "Graf von Zeppelin". Furtehr down it is explained why).


Last edited by Cargil48 on January 22nd, 2019, 8:52 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 14th, 2019, 11:36 pm
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Info about the development of carrier based airplanes:

Regarding the Me 109, the "Marineflieger" asked the "Luftzeugamt" (aerial weapon procurement directory) to ask Messerschmitt to develop a new type of wing, with inward folding landing gear (like in the Fw 190) and with a 20mm canon at the wing root. This transformation was such a success that from there on all Me 109 began being built with this type of wing, except the feature of the folding tips like the marine version had. Regarding the Ju 87T the major change to the land version was the engine, a Junkers Jumo 213 was installed with a takeoff power of 1.750 hp thanks to a better performing supercharger with intercooling system. Several other detail chyanges were also made to improve the aerodynamics and above all the slow flying performance thus allowing landings even without the braking cables, provided the head wind was at 60 km/h minimum (wind speed combined with the ships own speed).


Last edited by Cargil48 on January 22nd, 2019, 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 14th, 2019, 11:47 pm
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PS: And yes, I changed a bit the designs of both the 109 and the Ju 87 to give a better detail. The "Graf Zeppelin" in this AU-version carried a group of 2 Staffel of Ju 87/T-1 (2 x 12 = 24 units) with two more units for its Stab (Group commander and his deputy) and also two Staffel of escorting Me 109 T (24 planes + 4 for the respective Group commander, the "Geschwader-Kommodore" of the embarqued "Marine-Geschwader flying unit" and two in reserve, plus 2 Fieseler "Storch" and 2 Me 108 for liason duties.
PS: Later (1942) specially designed airplanes (like the Siebel Fh 104) would have been carried for those liaison purposes. This airplane would have had folding wings from the engines outwards, stronger engines, a stronger undercarriage and the necessary equipment to be launched by catapult and to land with the aid of the arresting hooks.


Last edited by Cargil48 on January 15th, 2019, 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Rob2012
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 14th, 2019, 11:56 pm
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I like it so far, can't wait for more.


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