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erik_t
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 31st, 2019, 2:02 pm
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Cargil48 wrote: *
One thing which goes inside my mind: WW II ships had already sonar. These devices, as we know, serve to detect underwater objects, mainly subs. BUT, would it be correct in the timeline of this AU to place a "forward scanning sonar array" in a bulbuous bow of a ship, able to detect mines floating near the surface in front of the ship?
This would be Grade-A Napkinwaffe. Major units had trouble with acoustic detection of nearby mines at least through the end of the Cold War.


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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 31st, 2019, 2:36 pm
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Destroyers are also quite expensive ships to divert from combat duties to do minesweeping. Even if the method works, an purpose build vessel will always be more cost effective for the task.

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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 31st, 2019, 3:07 pm
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acelanceloet wrote: *
Destroyers are also quite expensive ships to divert from combat duties to do minesweeping. Even if the method works, an purpose build vessel will always be more cost effective for the task.
My idea is to add that device to any warship of the DKM, as a defensive weapon against the threat of sea mines, not for the role of minesweeping an entire area. Same as any warship has AA guns.


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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 31st, 2019, 3:11 pm
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Gollevainen wrote: *

The Shipbucket rules about crediting applies to all drawings posted in our website, forum and discord server, simple "next version will have them" wont do, you need Place credits to all drawings.
Thanks for the reminder, change has been done. Cheers. Carlos


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 31st, 2019, 3:18 pm
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Cargil48 wrote: *
acelanceloet wrote: *
Destroyers are also quite expensive ships to divert from combat duties to do minesweeping. Even if the method works, an purpose build vessel will always be more cost effective for the task.
My idea is to add that device to any warship of the DKM, as a defensive weapon against the threat of sea mines, not for the role of minesweeping an entire area. Same as any warship has AA guns.
This would have been a very useful capability to have aboard USS Samuel B. Roberts, USS Princeton, and USS Tripoli, all of whom struck mines in the Persian Gulf in the late 1980s and early 1990s. If you think it's reasonable for a WW2-era unit to have detection capabilities above and beyond what you'd find on an Aegis cruiser 40 years later, go for it.


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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: January 31st, 2019, 7:59 pm
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erik_t wrote: *
This would have been a very useful capability to have aboard USS Samuel B. Roberts, USS Princeton, and USS Tripoli, all of whom struck mines in the Persian Gulf in the late 1980s and early 1990s. If you think it's reasonable for a WW2-era unit to have detection capabilities above and beyond what you'd find on an Aegis cruiser 40 years later, go for it.
Once available only to military and commercial vessels this achievement finally brought Forward Looking Sonar capability within the reach of the recreational boat owner. The first model, the FLS 1, was launched in 1992; there are now thousands of FLS’s in use worldwide.
https://daniamant.com/category/products/fls/

The first model for recreational boat owners was launched in 1992, a 2D device. When it first became available for military use, I couldn't find out. Be it as it may, if in WWII submarines could be detected, I presume even floating or at low depths in front of the detection device, why couldn't my idea have been tried then? Because of the size of the mines? Look, when I searched these days for the development of radar, I found out that in the late years of WWII the US Navy's ship could see in their radar scopes not only the target ship but also the column of water produced by the broadside the ship's artillery had fired, if it hit the water! Believe me, I saw it.

About 1942, the German Navy had developed a short-barrel 38 cm (15") Raketenwerfer (literally, "Rocket Thrower") gun as an anti-submarine weapon. Read this today while searching for that device shown in the parts sheet here in SB. It was the "Raketen Tauchgranate 38 cm RTg" launched by the 380mm Raketenwerfer 61 L/54. It's even here in SB on the part list!... Search for it in the Kriegsmarine Rocket Systems. Now, I don't know obviously the scanning angle of the sonars employed in WWII and mounted in the lower end of the ship's bow. In my AU, however, I use this "Raketenwerfer" in the bow of "my destroyers", since it existed for a reason, otherwise it wouldn't be in the part list here...


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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: February 1st, 2019, 12:08 am
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D


Last edited by Cargil48 on February 22nd, 2019, 8:28 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: February 1st, 2019, 2:29 am
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Cargil48 wrote: *
erik_t wrote: *
This would have been a very useful capability to have aboard USS Samuel B. Roberts, USS Princeton, and USS Tripoli, all of whom struck mines in the Persian Gulf in the late 1980s and early 1990s. If you think it's reasonable for a WW2-era unit to have detection capabilities above and beyond what you'd find on an Aegis cruiser 40 years later, go for it.
Once available only to military and commercial vessels this achievement finally brought Forward Looking Sonar capability within the reach of the recreational boat owner. The first model, the FLS 1, was launched in 1992; there are now thousands of FLS’s in use worldwide.
https://daniamant.com/category/products/fls/

The first model for recreational boat owners was launched in 1992, a 2D device. When it first became available for military use, I couldn't find out. Be it as it may, if in WWII submarines could be detected, I presume even floating or at low depths in front of the detection device, why couldn't my idea have been tried then? Because of the size of the mines? Look, when I searched these days for the development of radar, I found out that in the late years of WWII the US Navy's ship could see in their radar scopes not only the target ship but also the column of water produced by the broadside the ship's artillery had fired, if it hit the water! Believe me, I saw it.
I reiterate that real actual capable warships were still hitting mines regularly in the 1980s and 1990s, and not by choice. Because there was a different product available commercially in 1992, it stands to reason that it could have been at least experimentally feasible in the lab almost 50 years earlier?

I will offer that yes, absolutely, your idea could have been tried then. Probably was tried, since it's not a particularly novel concept. It would have been found to be completely impractical with technology available at the time, and indeed completely impractical with technology which would not be available for another generation. I invite you to compare and contrast an Intel 80486 with ENIAC or Colossus.

This is just too silly for my blood, and I am bowing out of this discussion and this thread.


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emperor_andreas
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: February 1st, 2019, 12:37 pm
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Very nice work on the destroyer!

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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: My AU German navyPosted: February 1st, 2019, 12:54 pm
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Last edited by Cargil48 on February 22nd, 2019, 8:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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