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Lebroba
Post subject: Sword Class FFG (Warning: 3D)Posted: October 2nd, 2012, 9:28 am
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This is the latest iteration of a frigate design I've been working on which would replace the LCS program all together.

Some AU background, the U.S. Navy realizes too late that LCS is incapable of meeting a modernized Naval threat. In a battle over territorial sovereignty of a tiny set of islands in the pacific, several LCS are lost with all hands. PRC combatants swarm and overwhelm the fatigued crews and the single mission module LCSs are incapable of dealing with multiple threats.

In response, the U.S. Navy revives its frigate program to provide open ocean escort and more importantly combat multiple threats in diffrent warfare areas simulatneously.

[ img ]
Front View

[ img ]
3/4 Top View

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Blackbuck
Post subject: Re: Sword Class FFG (Warning: 3D)Posted: October 2nd, 2012, 11:01 am
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Some small / medium calibre weapons might be a good idea (12.7-30mm sort of range) maybe located on the bridge platform as well as maybe aft of the helipad. Also what other than RAM have you got for defending against aerial threats? At the very least for a blue water escort I'd expect to see some sort of PDM on there like ESSM or Mica...

Overall though, I rather like this!

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gordo8000
Post subject: Re: Sword Class FFG (Warning: 3D)Posted: October 2nd, 2012, 2:49 pm
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Can you post more pictures please?

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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Sword Class FFG (Warning: 3D)Posted: October 2nd, 2012, 4:08 pm
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I seem to notice she lacks..... funnels.
also, the gun looks a tad small, the SLQ-32 is placed so that the backwarts arc is... well... nonexistent, I am a bit puzzled about the 2 helispots on an deck that small, the position of the torpedo tubes (how do you reload those!) and the amount of harpoons. the hull looks a bit off too, depending on where the waterline is...... and why bow thrusters on an ship like this? it is only noisy!
what confuses me is the amount of thought that went into stealth, but still some parts seem to try to be as unstealthy as possible (cutaway, rhib bay, TT's, bridge roof and doors)

your modelling skills are great, I have to say that though!

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Lebroba
Post subject: Re: Sword Class FFG (Warning: 3D)Posted: October 2nd, 2012, 9:53 pm
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Blackbuck wrote:
Some small / medium calibre weapons might be a good idea (12.7-30mm sort of range) maybe located on the bridge platform as well as maybe aft of the helipad. Also what other than RAM have you got for defending against aerial threats? At the very least for a blue water escort I'd expect to see some sort of PDM on there like ESSM or Mica...

Overall though, I rather like this!
I originally had some .50 cal mounts on the bridge wings but I removed them because I need to remodel them. I also want as many as 4 30mm bushmaster or equivalent weapons around the ship (2 fforward, 2 aft).

In the foward section are Mk 57 VLS similiar to ZUMWALT. In there will be a mixed bag of Mk 54 VLAs, ESSM, Nulca and SM-2s.

Thanks for the honest feedback.


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Lebroba
Post subject: Re: Sword Class FFG (Warning: 3D)Posted: October 3rd, 2012, 3:29 am
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acelanceloet wrote:
your modelling skills are great, I have to say that though!
Thanks for the compliment. Even though it was a left-handed one.
acelanceloet wrote:
I seem to notice she lacks..... funnels.
I should have labeled this a work in progress (WIP) because she isnt 100% complete. For proplusion I was looking at incorparating the LWNP type nuclear turbine system driving a set of propulsion motors with an LM-2500 or similiar for emergency power. I will add some stacks with the hidden caps like in later FLT II Burkes or maybe a system like they have on LCS-1.
acelanceloet wrote:
also, the gun looks a tad small,
Thats a good thing. Just like the AGS looks small next to a MK45 mod 4. its a smaller gun based on the AGS technology.
acelanceloet wrote:
the SLQ-32 is placed so that the backwarts arc is... well... nonexistent,
The SLQ-32 anteneas dont need a backward arc there are 2 of them 180 degrees of coverage a piece.

acelanceloet wrote:
I am a bit puzzled about the 2 helispots on an deck that small,
The ship isnt designed to embark an SH-60 although she can land one and hot pump it if neccesary. The ship embarks Fire Scout UAVs. Hence 1 big one and 1 small one.
acelanceloet wrote:
the position of the torpedo tubes (how do you reload those!)
You dont, They are cannisterized MK 54s. They plugin to an umbilical to the ship's HP air system and fire control. You shoot them for self defense and not primary ASW weapon system. Being in a canister means no maintenance, means I dont have to waste rack space on a rated Gunner's mate.
acelanceloet wrote:
and the amount of harpoons.
For when it goes up against bigger ships. Its going to need to pack more of a punch than the 127mm Gun.
acelanceloet wrote:
the hull looks a bit off too, depending on where the waterline is......
Thats probably just the camera angle. The silouhette looks good.
acelanceloet wrote:
and why bow thrusters on an ship like this? it is only noisy!
I dont think it will be an issue. Its not going to be used much away from port.
acelanceloet wrote:
what confuses me is the amount of thought that went into stealth, but still some parts seem to try to be as unstealthy as possible (cutaway, rhib bay, TT's, bridge roof and doors)
I'll look into that some more.

acelanceloet wrote:
your modelling skills are great, I have to say that though!


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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Sword Class FFG (Warning: 3D)Posted: October 3rd, 2012, 4:09 pm
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Lebroba wrote:
acelanceloet wrote:
your modelling skills are great, I have to say that though!
Thanks for the compliment. Even though it was a left-handed one.
left handed?
Lebroba wrote:
acelanceloet wrote:
I seem to notice she lacks..... funnels.
I should have labeled this a work in progress (WIP) because she isnt 100% complete. For proplusion I was looking at incorparating the LWNP type nuclear turbine system driving a set of propulsion motors with an LM-2500 or similiar for emergency power. I will add some stacks with the hidden caps like in later FLT II Burkes or maybe a system like they have on LCS-1.
I do not really know what size this ship is, but an ship that won't go far out of port seems to have no need for an nuclear reactor :S the weight of it will quite handicap this ship IMO. you were thinking of nuclear-electric drive?
Lebroba wrote:
acelanceloet wrote:
also, the gun looks a tad small,
Thats a good thing. Just like the AGS looks small next to a MK45 mod 4. its a smaller gun based on the AGS technology.
uhm....
shipbucket is an scale that good because it is uniform. and that makes things like the above proven wrong easily......
[ img ]
AGS-Lite, the smaller version of AGS (by downgrading the rate of fire and the ammo magazine compared to 'full' AGS)
and here you see the Mk 45, along with some other guns.
[ img ]
now restate that AGS is smaller then Mk 45?

also, the Mk 45 is that small compared to for example the Oto 127 due to it's low rate of fire, making it unsuitable for anti air. even then, this is about the smallest you can go for an 127 mm turret, as the reloader has to fit somewhere.....

so, how did you get your 127 mm gun to an size of an RAM launcher?
[ img ]
Lebroba wrote:
acelanceloet wrote:
the SLQ-32 is placed so that the backwarts arc is... well... nonexistent,
The SLQ-32 anteneas dont need a backward arc there are 2 of them 180 degrees of coverage a piece.
yes, they do cover 180 degrees a piece. but not where you placed them, as the backwards arc of 60 a piece is blocked by an huge structure! so they will cover only 360 - 2*60 = 240 degrees. that is the missing backwards arc I am talking about.

I would suggest placing them a bit out on an platform, like is done on the burkes, perrys and about every other ship that carried them.
Lebroba wrote:
acelanceloet wrote:
I am a bit puzzled about the 2 helispots on an deck that small,
The ship isnt designed to embark an SH-60 although she can land one and hot pump it if neccesary. The ship embarks Fire Scout UAVs. Hence 1 big one and 1 small one.
makes sense, although it puzzles me why you would make an separate take-off position for that, as you can't land 2 UAV's at the same time from the deck anyways.
Lebroba wrote:
acelanceloet wrote:
the position of the torpedo tubes (how do you reload those!)
You dont, They are cannisterized MK 54s. They plugin to an umbilical to the ship's HP air system and fire control. You shoot them for self defense and not primary ASW weapon system. Being in a canister means no maintenance, means I dont have to waste rack space on a rated Gunner's mate.
makes some sense, especially if you have no torpedo-carrying helicopter on board. I supposed you had, which would make an position near the hangar ideal.
Lebroba wrote:
acelanceloet wrote:
and the amount of harpoons.
For when it goes up against bigger ships. Its going to need to pack more of a punch than the 127mm Gun.
makes some sense, but I have yet to learn about an american ship that was not an FAC that carried more then 8 anti ship missiles.... not certain on that though.
Lebroba wrote:
acelanceloet wrote:
the hull looks a bit off too, depending on where the waterline is......
Thats probably just the camera angle. The silouhette looks good.
well she looks like an planing hull for some reason, or at least as one that lacks some bouyancy...... are you able to make an lineplan or at least an front view of the model?
Lebroba wrote:
acelanceloet wrote:
and why bow thrusters on an ship like this? it is only noisy!
I dont think it will be an issue. Its not going to be used much away from port.
they make noise when sailing due to the disrupted streamline. this is why any ship that has to do any kind of ASW almost never has them, unless for an very good reason. this one is also that small that it won't help much anyways....

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Sword Class FFG (Warning: 3D)Posted: October 3rd, 2012, 5:43 pm
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acelanceloet wrote:
Lebroba wrote:
acelanceloet wrote:
and why bow thrusters on an ship like this? it is only noisy!
I dont think it will be an issue. Its not going to be used much away from port.
they make noise when sailing due to the disrupted streamline. this is why any ship that has to do any kind of ASW almost never has them, unless for an very good reason. this one is also that small that it won't help much anyways....
The Norwegian frigates that are build as AS with mulitirole as second they use a type of pods that they can lift in to the hull and thus loss that noise problem.


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Lebroba
Post subject: Re: Sword Class FFG (Warning: 3D)Posted: October 4th, 2012, 7:58 am
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I know english isnt your first language so I'm not going to slam you on some of the things you said, but you should read a little closer before posting some stuff.

So to clear up some things, the ship wasnt going to have a nuclear reactor it was going to have an LWNP driving permanent magnet synchronous motors. You can read more about LWNP here.

The gun was about 37" to short. Im fixing it. I just recently got a decent drawing of a mod 4 gun. And while SB scale is good for what it does, its not as accurate as 3D. 2 ft is the smallest unit in SB scale right? I can model down to 1/1000th the width a human hair.

I'm gonan try moving the SLQ-32 antenas outward a bit. The people in the EW module made fun of me for having a mod 3 instead of a mod 2 so I changed that also.

I think 16 ASMs is the right number for how this class of ship would be used. My ship just took part in a sinkex against the EX-Corinado and I think the decision is a good one.

About the bow thrusters, I think Visby has them, and she is super stealthy right?

I have some time tonite to do some more renders, so I'll post some diffrent angles later on.

Thanks for helping make my art better.


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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Sword Class FFG (Warning: 3D)Posted: October 4th, 2012, 8:54 am
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Lebroba wrote:
So to clear up some things, the ship wasnt going to have a nuclear reactor it was going to have an LWNP driving permanent magnet synchronous motors. You can read more about LWNP here.
The LWNP is a nuclear reactor. A very compact one to be sure, but still a nuclear reactor.
Lebroba wrote:
The gun was about 37" to short. Im fixing it. I just recently got a decent drawing of a mod 4 gun. And while SB scale is good for what it does, its not as accurate as 3D. 2 ft is the smallest unit in SB scale right? I can model down to 1/1000th the width a human hair.
The smallest unit in SB is 6"
Lebroba wrote:
I think 16 ASMs is the right number for how this class of ship would be used. My ship just took part in a sinkex against the EX-Corinado and I think the decision is a good one.
I doubt the USN would be interested. USN doctrine is all about air strikes.
Lebroba wrote:
About the bow thrusters, I think Visby has them, and she is super stealthy right?
Quote:
She is super stealthy against radar and IR. She's not an ASW unit and she's designed to operate in what is possibly the worst waters for Sonars, so hull noises is a secondary concern.

Also, I find the lack of proper helo support highly doubtful. Heloes are by far the best ASW weapon available to modern surface forces and ASW is one of the primary missions for Ocean Escorts.
The other primary mission is AAW.
ASuW is at best a secondary mission. The goal of an escort is not to defeat the enemy in direct combat, it's to protect the merchants in its convoy or the capital ships in its task group.

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