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Tobius
Post subject: Re: Mister Hoover's NavyPosted: July 1st, 2017, 3:58 pm
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BE CAREFUL FOR WHAT YOU WISH:

President Friedrich Ebert of Germany in this AU had to make a best of a terrible situation that is worse and better than in the RTL at the close of WWI. The Allies carried through with their 1919 offensive all the way to the Rhine inside Germany. and into southern Austria from Italy. An armistice is sought in September to spare the German people another "grass onion" winter and the terms are predictably harsh. Nevertheless, despite the border adjustments and the enormous reparations demanded, Ebert plays Lloyd George and Woodrow Wilson like a pair of bow fiddles and uses the national self determination game against those two gentlemen.

Austria Hungary goes the way of all dodos, and the new German Federation is sliced and diced to make at least a dozen new countries and territories. The French occupy the Rhineland for 20 years, guaranteeing for a generation that they will rob the place blind, and the allies have an army of occupation in selected German "states" (Prussia being one). But Ebert has managed to bring most of the Germans under one roof, although some Czechs might object to being called Germans, by arguing to the Anglo-Americans that a unified neutral demilitarized democratic socialist Germany is preferable to a Soviet one allied with Russia.

So France can “occupy” the Rhineland for 20 years. Ebert has just given them the shaft.

PACIFIC SCHEMES:

Charles Evan Hughes served a president who would be infamous for Teapot Dome and for the Veterans Bureau and Shipping Board scandals. Warren G. Harding was either a criminal or a fool. The judgment on the man changes with each generation, however Hughes has remained consistently adjudged a chicane, and a wiley diplomat. The Secretary of State does his job well rejecting the first call of Senator William Borah for a disarmament conference to be convened at Washington.

The British are either for it, so as to hammer down an agreement to avoid a ruinous (to them) naval arms race or acquiescent. Japan in the middle of her 8-8 program is leery of American tricks. Teddy Roosevelt bamboozled them at Portsmouth and Washington seems like another set-up. They propose Tokyo.

Hughes suggests Manila as a midpoint. It is still "American territory" but it is very far from the US seat of government and closer to Tokyo and is a place where all the participants can meet on "neutral" ground.

It happens. France, and Italy, still stinging from the Treaty of Cologne setup, initially beg off. Russia is disinvited. That leaves Belgium, China, Holland, Portugal, the UK, the US, and Japan.

The negotiations take almost a year but the essentials navally are:
---a. an immediate halt to all battleship construction.
---b. a ten year holiday on new battleships
---c. a ban on fortifications for all Pacific powers outside of their national territories. Significantly the Volcano Islands, Formosa, Singapore, Hawaii and Alaska are excluded.
---d. although there has been a great deal of wrangling about force ratios, the US concedes on the battleships question, allowing that they will scrap enough ships to permit the Japanese a 5 to 6 force ratio. This will cause an uproar in the United States Navy, whose battleship admirals will see it as a sellout of their cherished dream to finally overtake the Royal Navy. The Royal Navy will not be held to the same ratio. Japan 10, US 12, UK 16
---e. On the other hand, the US will be allowed to reach a parity force ratio with the British in aircraft carriers. The British accept that the US will have no recourse to battlecruisers if this concession is made. No battlecruisers means as far as the naval art is understood in 1921, that the slow American battle-line will be unable to refuse battle when confronted by either the Japanese or the British, or both. In the details, it works out to Japan 5, US 6, UK 7.

Funny that the British fail to read the fine print. The US can trade in battleships for carriers in overall capital ship tonnages by immediate scrapping for obsolescence. So can Japan and Britain, but only after after a battleship holiday, because their hulls are young and brand new. but the American battlecruisers on the stocks to be converted are excluded from those tonnage calculations, as America, with no carriers, yet, is allowed to convert them to reach parity with the Royal Navy.

Hughes is a sharp lawyer.

As for the Seven Power Treaty, about the only thing of interest to the US is that her current Pacific possessions are guaranteed as sovereign territory(But not allowed to be fortified. What about"commercial aerodromes" again?") and the Shanghai concession is verified by China.

All in all, the AU changes here are tiny, but it can have interesting consequences.


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Tobius
Post subject: Re: Mister Hoover's NavyPosted: July 2nd, 2017, 4:24 am
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[ img ]

[ img ]

Latest versions of the two Derfflinger conversions.


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Tobius
Post subject: Re: Mister Hoover's NavyPosted: July 2nd, 2017, 5:24 am
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AU THINGS TO BE NOTICED SO FAR:

The bomber is the Great Lakes Aircraft Company B2G

General characteristics
Crew: Two: pilot and observer
Length: 28 ft 9 in (8.77 m)
Wingspan: 36 ft 0 in (10.98 m)
Height: 11 ft 0 in (3.35 m)
Wing area: 384 ft² (35.7 m²)
Empty weight: 3,903 lb (1,774 kg)
Loaded weight: 6,347 lb (2,885 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Pratt & Whitney R-1535-82 Twin Wasp Junior 14-cylinder, two row air cooled radial engine, 750 hp (560 kW)
Performance
Maximum speed: 188 mph (163 kn, 303 km/h)
Range: 549 mi (477 nmi, 884 km)
Service ceiling: 20,100 ft (6,100 m)
Wing loading: 16.5 lb/ft² (80.8 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.12 hp/lb (190 W/kg)
Climb to 5,000 ft (1,520 m): 5.5 min.
Armament
Guns: 1 × fixed forward firing 0.312 in (7.92 mm M1919 Browning machine gun and 1 × flexibly mounted 7.92 mm Lewis gun
Bombs: 1 × 1,100 lb (500 kg) bomb under fuselage

The fighter/scout is the Boeing F4B

General characteristics
Crew: one pilot
Length: 22 ft 1.5 in (6.73 m)
Wingspan: 28 ft 6 in (8.68 m)
Height: 10 ft 7 in (3.22 m)
Wing area: 252 ft2 (23.41 m2)
Empty weight: 2,823 lb (1,281 kg)
Gross weight: 3,704 lb (1,680 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Pratt & Whitney R-1535-44, 625 hp (466 kW)
Performance
Maximum speed: 200 mph (322 km/h)
Cruise speed: 170 mph (274 km/h)
Range: 525 miles (845 km)
Rate of climb: 1190 ft/min (6.04 m/s)
Armament
2 x 0.312 in (7.92 mm) M1919 Browning forward firing machine guns.
1 x 550lb (250kg) bomb

The fighter scout is the FS3U

General characteristics
Crew: Two: Pilot, Torpedo Officer, Navigator, Radioman/Gunner
Length: 11.25 m (37 ft 1 in)
Wingspan: 50 ft 0 in (15.24 m)
Height: 4.60 m (15 ft 1 in)
Wing area: (41.8 m²) 450 ft²
Empty weight: 2,994 kg (6,600 lb)
Loaded weight: 13,200 kg (11.220 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 13,200 (29,101 lb)
Powerplant: two × Pratt & Whitney R-1830-64 Twin Wasp radial engine, 900 hp (672 kW) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 435 k/h (230 knots, 270 mph) at 16,000 ft (4,800 m)
Cruise speed: 206 km/h (111 knots, 128 mph)
Range: 1700 km (918 nmi, 1054 mi) with 1 x 1000 kg (2,202 lb) bomb, 1,152 km (623 nmi, 716 mi) with Mk XI electric torpedo
Service ceiling: 9,400 m (30,840 ft)
Rate of climb: 12.95 m/s (2550 ft/min)
Armament
Guns:
4 forward-firing 1.5 cm (O.6 in) machine guns or 2-4 x 2.0 cm (0.79 in) auto-cannon
Bombs:
1 × Mark XI electric torpedo or
1 × 1,000 kg (2202 lb) bomb or
2 × 250 kg (550 lb) bombs or
12 × 50 kg (110 lb) bombs

WWI saw the "neutral" USN plagued by British seaplanes and German dirigibles. Either the Germans were chasing US coast guard cutters up near Norway or British seaplanes buzzed (and bombed "by accident") US subs in the Atlantic. Either way, the USN wanted a way to shoot back, so they spent the money to develop something that could deal with both low angle and high angle threats. This was the short barreled semi-automatic DP 15 cm gun, usually mounted in a twin barrel gun house so that the mount can pump out the required 20 rounds per minute to a slant range of 15,000 meters and AAA service ceiling of about 10,000 meters. .

The Hotchkiss 2 cm cannon with a 120 rounds a minute cyclic and a slant range of of 7000 meters and a AAA service ceiling of 3000 meters was inadequate. The 4 barrel Remington 3 cm pompom and the Winchester Gatling, each had a 480 round/minute cyclic, a slant range of 8,000 meters and an AAA service ceiling of 6,000 meters. The AU Bofors will be 1000 meters superior when it appears later, but bird in the hand, you know? Against the air threat of the day, it is overkill.


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WWII44
Post subject: Re: Mister Hoover's NavyPosted: July 2nd, 2017, 3:59 pm
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Joined: August 6th, 2011, 4:10 pm
nice looking carrier


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Tobius
Post subject: Re: Mister Hoover's NavyPosted: July 2nd, 2017, 7:12 pm
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[ img ]

Perch class submarine

General characteristics
Type: Diesel-electric submarine
Displacement:Surfaced: 2,300–2,350 tons
Submerged: 3,000-3,950 tons full load
Length: 236ft 6 in (72 m)
Beam: 32 ft 10 in (10.0 m)
Draft: 23 ft 10 in (7.0 m)

Propulsion:
1 × diesel engine driving 1 x electrical generator (Fairbanks-Morse or General Motors);
3 × 126-cell Sargo batteries driving 1 × low-speed electric motor (Elliott Company or General Electric) on one shaft
5,400 shp (4,000 kW) surfaced or snorting on diesels
2,740 shp (2,040 kW) submerged on the battery
Speed:
20.25 knots (38 km/h) surfaced,
17.5 knots (32 km/h) submerged (2 hours)
Range:11,000 nautical miles (20,000 km) surfaced @ 10 knots (19 km/h)
Endurance: 48 hours @ 4 knots (7.5 km/h) submerged, 75 days on patrol
Test depth: 400 ft (120 m): Max. safe 800 ft (240 m)
Complement: 8 officers, 50-60 enlisted men
Armament:
4 × 21.65 in (55 cm) torpedo tubes forward, 24 torpedoes or 48 mines
1 × 15 cm (5.9 im) / 25 caliber disappearing deck gun. (50 rounds)
Various Hotchkiss machine guns fitted on pintle mounts for AAA defense.


Last edited by Tobius on July 2nd, 2017, 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Mister Hoover's NavyPosted: July 2nd, 2017, 7:49 pm
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Tobius, your drawings could really improve if you differentiate between panel lines and actual shapes with different colours. The shipbucket style even uses different tones (black-grey) for the different angles. In addition tot that, some shading that shows the shape of the ships would help a lot.

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Mister Hoover's NavyPosted: July 4th, 2017, 2:53 am
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Location: Wilmington, North Carolina
I second ace's comments on shading. Proper shading can really transform the way a ship looks when drawn, and will make your design much better looking. Good luck!

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RegiaMarina1939

Current Worklist:
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Tobius
Post subject: Re: Mister Hoover's NavyPosted: July 4th, 2017, 3:21 am
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Works in progress. The shading depends on what evolves next. It is kind of synergistic as you might have discovered from Mr. McKinley's Navy. The art kind of follows the pseudo history.


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Tobius
Post subject: Re: Mister Hoover's NavyPosted: July 4th, 2017, 3:26 pm
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[ img ]

A bit of fluff about these "frigates" in the nonce.


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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Mister Hoover's NavyPosted: July 4th, 2017, 3:36 pm
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Tobius, first of all, a few remarks
- as far as I know, nor the USN, nor any other western nation, used the frigate designation in 1927
- Nothing about this ship matches the shape, weapons or even role of any ship called frigate
- The weapons look extremely small
- the mast looks extremely large
- the crane looks too modern
- the anchor looks too ancient
- I doubt there is much sense in a 4 propeller ship of this size
- the crane looks oversized
- the funnels look oversized

In short, I would recommend, before posting the textual description, maybe look at the design again, and make certain this is what you wanted to post? Right now it looks like a beginner level ship, somebody who knows nothing about how shipbucket style, ships or their history work. Nothing wrong with that level of skill and knowledge if you are new here, but you have drawn plenty of ships now, so I've come to expect something a bit better by now :P

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