Moderator: Community Manager
[Post Reply] [*]  Page 32 of 44  [ 440 posts ]  Go to page « 130 31 32 33 3444 »
Author Message
indiajuliet
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: March 1st, 2014, 10:18 pm
Offline
Posts: 336
Joined: July 31st, 2010, 2:15 pm
Location: London, UK
Great work, eswube. This thread is excellent for drawings but also for the bit of history I learn every time there's a new post :D


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
eswube
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: March 2nd, 2014, 8:26 am
Offline
Posts: 9658
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 8:31 am
Polish Air Force in France 1939-1940, Part II - combat aircraft

Fighters

First Polish fighter unit in France was 2/8 Dywizjon Myśliwski Krakowsko-Poznański (Groupe de Chasse Polonaise 2/8 - note the unusual number with two Arab numerals), formed in january 1940 at Montpelier (and commonly named Grupa Montpelier - Montpelier Group). It reached operational readiness on 26 March 1940 but never operated together as it was divided into 6 3-plane detachments spread to various French fighter units:
-Klucz 1 "Ła" attached to GC III/2, planes: MS.406 (26.03-31.05), Curtiss H-75 (31.05-20.06.40);
-Klucz 2 "Pe" attached to GC II/2, planes: MS.406 (26.03-06.06), MB.152 (06.06-19.06) D.520 (20.06.40);
-Klucz 3 "Su" attached to GC III/6, planes: MS.406 (26.03-14.06), D.520 (15.06-20.06.40);
-Klucz 4 "Bu" attached to GC III/1, planes: MS.406 (26.03-19.06.40);
-Klucz 5 "Br" attached to GC I/2, planes: MS.406 (26.03-19.06.40);
-Klucz 6 "Go" attached to GC II/7, planes: MS.406 (26.03-28.05.40), D.520 (28.05-24.06.40);
(two-letter symbols in names came from first letters of detachment' commanders names)
Next figther unit - and only to operate as full unit, was 1/145 Dywizjon Myśliwski Warszawski (Groupe de Chasse Polonaise 1/145), formed on 6 April 1940 and operational since around 10 May 1940. It used MS.406 (06.04-18.05), CR.714 Cyclone (18.05-19.06, as the only combat unit to use the type) and MB.151C1 (11.06-19.06.40, only very few vere delivered).
Two more units: 3 Polski Dywizjon Myśliwski and 4 Polski Dywizjon Myśliwski were undergoing last stages of training when France fell.
Seven 3 to 6-plane autonomous detachments were spread to French front-line fighter units:
-Klucz (1) "Ba" attached to GC III/6, planes: MS.406 (25.05-15.06), D.520 (15.06-20.06.40);
-Klucz (2) "Ce" attached to GC II/6, planes: MS.406 (16.05-06.06), MB.152 (06.06-19.06), D.520 (20.06.40);
-Klucz (3) "Wy" attached to GC II/10, planes: MS.406 (05-02.06), MB.152 (03.06-18.06.40);
-Klucz (4) "Ja" attached to GC II/1, planes: MS.406 (05-18.05.40), MB.152 (18.05-18.06.40);
-Klucz (5) "Ga" attached to GC III/10, planes: MS.406 and D.501 (05-31.05.40), MB.152 (01.06-18.06.40);
-Klucz (6) "Wi" attached to GC III/9, planes MS.406 and D.501 (05-31.05.40), MB.152 (01.06-18.06.40);
-Klucz (7) "Jan" attached to GC II/7, planes: D.520 (30.05-24.06.40).
Additionaly Polish personnel manned a number of territorial air defense units, so called Patrouilles de Protection (in Polish commonly called "klucze kominowe" - "smokestack flights", since they were usually protecting major industrial plants):
-Klucz (1) "Ko" at SNCAC factory Bourges, planes: Curtiss H-75 (11.05-18.06.40);
-Klucz (2) "Op" at EAA-301 depot at Romoratin, planes: MS.406 (17.05-17.06.40);
-Klucz (3) "He" at SNCASO factory Chatearoux, planes: MB.152 (05-18.06.40);
-Klucz (4) "Kr" at D'Etampes, planes: Koolhoven FK.58 (1-15.05.40?);
-Klucz (5) at Villacoublay, planes: Koolhoven FK.58 (1-15.05.40?);
-Klucz (6) at Lyon, planes: Koolhoven FK.58 (1-15.05.40?);
-Klucz (7) at Aulnat, planes: Koolhoven FK.58 (1-15.05), MS.406 (16.05-18.06.40);
-Klucz (8) at Caen, planes: Koolhoven FK.58 and D.501 (16.05-18.06.40);
-Klucz (9) at Cognac, planes: Koolhoven FK.58 (16.05-18.06.40);
-Klucz (10) at La Rochelle, planes: Koolhoven FK.58 and D.501 (16.05-18.06.40);
-Klucz (11) at Angers, planes: MS.406 (15.05-18.06.40);
-Klucz (12) at SNCAM factory Toulouse, planes: D.520 (05-06.40);
-Klucz (13) at Rennes, planes: MS.406 (15.05-18.06.40);
-Klucz (14) at Chateaudun, planes: MB.152, Koolhoven FK.58 and MS.406;
-Klucz (15) at Tours, planes: MB.151 (15.05-18.06.40);
-Klucz (16) at Bourges, planes: MB.151 (15.05-18.06.40);
-2 Eskadra "Salon" (2e Escadrille de Salon), divided into detachments at Salon, Clermont-Ferrand at Istres; planes: Koolhoven FK.58 (15.05-18.06.40).

Morane-Saulnier MS.406C1 was most first and most numerous of front-line fighters used by PSP in France. Some 128 were used by Polish fighter units, becoming earliest operational equipment of GC 2/8, GC 1/145 and autonomous front-line detachments, as well as occasional equipment of some protection flights, and few used in training units. Most of the aerial victories of Polish pilots during the French campaign were acquired on these planes.

Poland, Morane-Saulnier MS.406
Many thanks to DarthPanda and Caddaric79 for their earlier work on MS.405 and MS.406
[ img ]

Failed Caudron-Renault CR.714 Cyclone light fighters were supposed to be delivered to Finland, but after the end of Winter War that idea was mostly scrapped and only several planes were actually delivered there, with most being eventually reverted to Polish GC 1/145. Soon it become obvious that these fragile and underpowered planes were useless as front-line fighters, but despite official ban on their use since 25 May, lack of any replacement aircraft forced units' pilots to continue flying them for the rest of the campaign. Polish Cyclones achieved 12 air victories confirmed and 2 probable to a loss of 7 pilots. Also several Caudrons were flown at Lyon-Bron.

Poland, Caudron CR.714 Cyclone
[ img ]

Dutch-produced Koolhoven FK.58 light fighters were purchased by Armee de l'Air for it's colonial units (mainly in Indochina), but due to outbreak of war their delivery to Far East was postponed (and ultimately never happened), with majority of them being sent to Polish protection flights who were their only combat user. They had only marginally better performance than Cyclone but were much more reliable and were remembered quite fondly by their crews.

Poland, Koolhoven FK.58
[ img ]

American-built Curtiss H-75 fighters were used only in small numbers by PSP in two fighter flights (one front-line and one protection). At least 4 air victories were achieved on them.
Many thanks to Nighthunter for his drawing of Curtiss 75.

Poland, Curtiss H-75 Hawk
[ img ]

Modern but troubled Bloch MB.151 and MB.152 fighters equipped several protection flights and were planned to become replacement of Cyclones in GC 1/145 (but only several - possibly just 2 - were delivered to that unit). They achieved the distinction to be the last planes to achieve air victory by Polish pilot in the French campaign (He-111 on 18.06.40) and to be the only combat planes used for evacuation of Polish airmen directly to Great Britain (by Klucz "He" on 18.06.40).
Many thanks to Garlicdesign for his drawing of MB.152.

Poland, Bloch MB.152
[ img ]

Dewoitine D.520 fighters become equipment of several of Polish smaller fighter units in the last weeks of French campaign. Unfortunately only 15 Polish pilots flew these great planes.

Poland, Dewoitine D.520
[ img ]

Bombers

Contrary to fighter units, bomber units of PSP had no opportunity to participate in combat operations (though some bomber crews made combat flights in French units). Polish crews were undergoing training at Lyon-Bron and in various French training units, but formation of front-line bomber unit got delayed and delayed. That has somewhat changed on 21 May 1940 when commander of the Zone d'Opérations Aériennes des Alpes (Alpine Zone of Air Operations) - to which Lyon belonged - demanded urgent formation of provisional combat units based on training establishments. As a result a Polska Bombowa Jednostka Marszowa (Groupe de Bombardement de Marche Polonais, GBMP) was formed, with Bloch MB.131 planes as their equipment. Problems with supplies of equipment needed for combat operations delayed the training process until by early June deliveries of Martin 167 aircraft opened the possibility of equipping with them a "real" bomber group. Therefore on 6 June 1940 GBMP was dissolved and incorporated into formed already several days earlier 1 Polski Dywizjon Bombowy (1er Groupe de Bombardement Polonaise, GBP 1). Combat training of that unit lasted until the final days of the campaign, though.

Despite the modern appearance, the Bloch MB.131 medium bombers were quite outdated by 1940, especially since they suffered from weak engines. Seveal such planes were used as advanced bomber trainers at Lyon-Bron and (together with planes from several French units) were pressed into service in GBMP.

Poland, Bloch MB.131
[ img ]

Modern US-built Martin 167 were to become equipment of GBP 1. Polish crews were undergoing operational training on these planes in June 1940, but the aircraft actually belonged to various French units and were only "loaned" to Poles.

Poland, Martin 167
[ img ]

Army Co-operation aircraft

Polish army co-operation units were to be equipped with Potez 63.11 aircraft. Several of them were used at Lyon-Bron for specialized crew training. In april 1940 1 Polski Dywizjon Współpracy was formed at Lyon-Bron, followed by 2 Dywizjon in late may, but neither of these units received any aircraft on their own, although significant group of Polish crews did made operational flights on these planes while attached temporarily to French units (GR I/35, GR I/14, GR II/22, GR I/36).

Poland, Potez 63.11
[ img ]

Starting next week: Polish Air Force in Great Britain (1939-1946)!


Last edited by eswube on February 8th, 2015, 7:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Hood
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: March 2nd, 2014, 12:05 pm
Offline
Posts: 6556
Joined: July 31st, 2010, 10:07 am
Another great instalment!

_________________
Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Radome
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: March 2nd, 2014, 3:27 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 1125
Joined: April 15th, 2011, 10:57 pm
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Cool! i learn somthing new with every post!

_________________
- - -> My Worklist! <- - -


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Naixoterk
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: March 2nd, 2014, 3:44 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 521
Joined: July 8th, 2013, 7:55 pm
Superb, as usual.
I always wondered, what's exactly the role of an army cooperation aircraft? To act like a close air support plane? Just to report enemy position to land units? (IE, acting like a mere reconnaissance airplane), a mixture between those two functions?

I think that the Japanese used them extensively in China...

_________________
Currently working on:
  • Fiat G.50
    Breda Ba.64/65/75
    Dornier Do.17/Do.215
    Heinkel He.79
    Junkers Ju.52
    Junkers J.I
Repainting:
  • Grumman F4F Wildcat/Grumman G-36
    Caproni Ca.135bis


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Thiel
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: March 2nd, 2014, 3:52 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 5376
Joined: July 27th, 2010, 3:02 am
Location: Aalborg, Denmark
Naixoterk wrote:
Superb, as usual.
I always wondered, what's exactly the role of an army cooperation aircraft? To act like a close air support plane? Just to report enemy position to land units? (IE, acting like a mere reconnaissance airplane), a mixture between those two functions?

I think that the Japanese used them extensively in China...
They're primarily courier planes. They ferry messages and people around.

_________________
“Close” only counts with horseshoes, hand grenades, and tactical nuclear weapons.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error

Worklist

Source Materiel is always welcome.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
eswube
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: March 2nd, 2014, 4:05 pm
Offline
Posts: 9658
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 8:31 am
Thanks for all the comments! :)

@Naixoterk
Exact set of roles fulfilled by "army cooperation" aircraft differed bit from user to user, but generally it means close reconnaissance, artillery spotting, liaison (courier) duties and sometimes light attack.
In case of Potez 63.11 it was reconnaissance and secondary bomber roles.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Caddaric79
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: March 2nd, 2014, 4:30 pm
Offline
Posts: 937
Joined: February 18th, 2011, 6:46 am
Fantastic bombers you draw here.

_________________
"knowledge is like jam, the less you have the more you spread it"


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
klagldsf
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: March 2nd, 2014, 4:36 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 2765
Joined: July 28th, 2010, 4:14 pm
It sounds like it never happened but I wonder what would happen if a Koolhoven FK.58 ever met a Zero. It sounds like they might be a little better evenly matched than at least anything else the Dutch had in the Pacific.

eswube pretty much explained what an "army co-operation aircraft" is - some (like the Bohm & Voss BV-141 or the Focke-Wulf FW-189 Uhu and most of what the US used given that the US mostly used civilian training planes in warpaint) weren't much equipped to do anything better than reconnaissance or spotting (which was still very important if you want your artillery to be useful - something we had discovered was still relevant all the way to when we were fighting the Viet Cong - actually, probably especially against the Viet Cong). Others, like the aforementioned Potez 63.11 and some Japanese planes at least in the 30s had enough performance to be considered multi-role aircraft.

That Potez 63.11 does look like it has some very nice spotter's accommodations, though. If the Nazis hadn't virtually destroyed them all it would've been a very swell aircraft to do topography and navigational aid work after the war.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
BB1987
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: March 2nd, 2014, 4:37 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 2746
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 1:01 pm
Location: Rome - Italy
Great stuff as usual

_________________
My Worklist
Sources and documentations are the most welcome.

-Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)
-Koko's carrier-based aircrafts of WWII
-Koko Kaiun Yuso Kaisha - KoKaYu Line (Koko AU spinoff)
-Koko - Civil Aviation


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Display: Sort by: Direction:
[Post Reply]  Page 32 of 44  [ 440 posts ]  Return to “FD Scale Drawings” | Go to page « 130 31 32 33 3444 »

Jump to: 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


The team | Delete all board cookies | All times are UTC


cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]