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AF92
Post subject: Re: Handley Page "heavies" family treePosted: October 7th, 2018, 12:20 pm
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This was an amazing thread. A dedicated research work accompanied by excellent drawings. We had a chat with Sheepster previously about the roots of Victor design. But I would like to second eswube's suggestion regarding the continuation of the project with development story of HP Victor :D


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Sheepster
Post subject: Posted: October 7th, 2018, 12:27 pm
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Well funny you mention that eswube …

The two family trees don't quite mesh exactly, but the H.P.47 provided the monoplane wing design that was used to turn the H.P.43 into the H.P.51, and was also used to provide the slow flight data for the design of the H.P.75 - which eventually led to the Victor design.

We already have a beautiful Victor in FD, but stand by for this (smaller) family group to be modelled here :)


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Handley Page "heavies" family treePosted: October 7th, 2018, 12:36 pm
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Well, we have single example of Victor B.2, but there was also the prototype, the B.1, various sub-variants and certain degree of variety regarding their paint schemes, so I'd say the topic of Victor is far, far from exhausted. ;)

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Handley Page "heavies" family treePosted: October 7th, 2018, 2:11 pm
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Not to mention the civil H.P.97 Pacific and HP.111 and the military H.P.111C, the H.P.98 target marker variant of the Victor plus their larger boundary-layer designs like the H.P.117.

Lots of work if your up for continuing the series in the future.
This has been a most enjoyable thread though and you've spoilt us which is why we're wanting more!

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Handley Page "heavies" family treePosted: October 7th, 2018, 2:20 pm
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Indeed this thread was one of the best seen in the forum.


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llamaman2
Post subject: Re: Handley Page "heavies" family treePosted: October 8th, 2018, 7:21 pm
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These are absolutely beautiful. Love them.

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Charguizard
Post subject: Re: Handley Page "heavies" family treePosted: October 9th, 2018, 12:04 am
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I want to back the praise being given, this is a fantastic thread and I am absolutely amazed at the blinding pace at which you proceeded.

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JSB
Post subject: Re: Handley Page "heavies" family treePosted: October 15th, 2018, 6:51 pm
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Just finished reading and I must add my congratulations on such a great thread!


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Sheepster
Post subject: Re: Handley Page "heavies" family treePosted: October 23rd, 2018, 12:53 am
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Thanks guys, with that encouragement I'm expanding my original project.

The research involved in a task like this leads to lots of interesting nooks and crannies, and quite a few "aha" moments that explain the why's of the historical design process.
One personal eye opener from delving into pre-war RAF designs, has been a reappraisal of Britain's policy of appeasement towards Nazi Germany in the late 1930's - I now no longer see Neville Chamberlain as the ineffective fool who bent over backwards to accommodate Hitler, but rather as the gallant statesman who saved the world at the expense of his own reputation.
The collective horror after WW1 led Western Europe, and especially Britain, to turn to anti-militaristic policies. The Royal Navy and RAF wore the brunt of this and were scaled back to ineffectiveness, with a lack of sophisticated designs and a lack of production of the few types commissioned - as noted in this thread, even the HP Heyford was almost not built due to League of Nations agreements to limit offensive weaponry. By the time it was realised that pacifism only works when it is policy of BOTH sides, the Western Allies had been very much left behind by their aggressive rivals. While Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and Imperial Japan had been rearming, the West had been enjoying daydreams of international peace, and were completely unprepared to adequately defend themselves, let alone guarantee the freedom of other nations. Britain was now stuck. It could not enter a military conflict with any other than a third rate power with any hope of success. All that could be done was to buy time to allow the military to re-equip and rearm. Chamberlain did all he could do to ensure that the coming WW2 was delayed sufficiently to allow Britain to be able to be strong enough fight. If anything Chamberlain was forced into war with Germany before Britain, and France also, was ready - as seen by the collapse of France and the BEF in 1940.
Much criticism is given to the Western Betrayals; from the Rhineland, Austria, Czechoslovakia to the failure to defend Poland. However the Battle of Britain in 1940/1 was a very closely fought campaign. If Britain had instead gone to war over the Rhineland in 1936, or even Czechoslovakia in 1938, the Battle of Britain would have been fought with biplane fighters against Me109's and quickly led to a German invasion and British defeat (potentially an interesting AU scenario).
Unfortunately the pacifism policies of the 1920's and early 1930's led to a Western Europe that had positioned itself to be too weak to defend even itself, and Appeasement was a delicate tightrope walk gamble that gave the world the potential to combat rampant militarism - a gamble that paid off. Chamberlain was a hero - and not the last PM before a Reichsbevollmachtigter was appointed.

HP's history held two main design trees - the tree that started with the O/100 and concluded with the Hermes series, and a second tree that includes the Victor bomber. So with the first tree completed here, please find to follow the details of that second tree - but I'm still researching the end of branches so expect a little delay in its completion.


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Sheepster
Post subject: Posted: October 23rd, 2018, 1:19 am
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H.P.47 General Purpose

Dr. Victor Luchman, a German citizen, assisted HP with receiving captured German designs after the end of WW1, and in 1929 joined HP as a design engineer with an interest in advanced metal aircraft design. His first design was a single-engined mailplane concept, which unfortunately was not translated into an actual design as the requirement was for a twin-engined aircraft - even though Luchman's advanced single was superior to the specification.

[ img ]

Instead the design was reworked to specification G.4/31 for a military general purpose aircraft, fulfilling the roles of light transport, day/night bomber, and landbased torpedo bomber. The aircraft's advanced wing and handling technique meant that HP acquired a Heinkel HE64C light aircraft (of similar wing and gear design) for testing. The aircraft was initially fitted with a forward sliding canopy for easier emergency egress, however this was soon removed.
The aircraft was eventually only used for testing, and the specification was instead eventually transferred to the Vickers Wellesley.


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