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Karle94
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: November 9th, 2018, 12:38 pm
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Every single person was taken off, as there was too much water for the pumps.


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Rhade
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: November 9th, 2018, 12:52 pm
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Karle94 wrote: *
Every single person was taken off, as there was too much water for the pumps.
Every?

Well that's rather weird... damage control teams should stay onboard and try to control leaks, try to save the ships from further damage. But all crew abandoned ship, that's unusual IMO.

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: November 9th, 2018, 3:07 pm
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Rhade wrote: *
Karle94 wrote: *
Every single person was taken off, as there was too much water for the pumps.
Every?

Well that's rather weird... damage control teams should stay onboard and try to control leaks, try to save the ships from further damage. But all crew abandoned ship, that's unusual IMO.
the damage was at such level, that there was decided to take all crew member off, when they started to get concerned about ship stability. initially there was only 10 crewmember left onboard... and the underwater damage might be of such magnitude that there was no time, then just close off all section.

Note: it all happened in under 15 minutes, from collision to evacuation. evacuation order wasn't given before 5-10 minutes in, so the leakage must have been to big. initially there ships own pumps and pumps from other boats/coast guard vessel was trying to pump all the water away, but there come in more water than they could pump out.

Note: that she is laying at a 45 grade angle, is due to when three tugs pushed here more sideways in to land and on to the rocks.


From a crew member:
Quote:
"I was scarcely 10 cm away to be torn apart. Half the cabin is torn and crushed. The deck just over us is just gone and there is fuel in the water and all over me. Had to fight against the clock so as not to be electro-shocked by high voltage cables that lay in the water around me. "
Quote:
"I and the others on my cabin had to stand completely on the edge of the hull to take charge up to the deck over. From there we had to climb into a small hole over us, to get on the inside of the damage. In the hallway I find the flashlight and leatherman, I toke it with me. "
Quote:
"I am brought to the nursery, where I am quickly treated for my injuries. When I was treated, I took care of the others in the nursery. Not long after it's beaten "leave the vessel, vessel rolling""

Latest update: everything is going as planed, next is to get the frigate up on a barge.


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: November 10th, 2018, 3:00 pm
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during tonight or tomorrow, they will send crew onboard the frigate to do an inspection, this inspection will help them with deciding what they are going to do.

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Colombamike
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: November 10th, 2018, 4:02 pm
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Damage's looks monumental (=> for a modern warship)

- The entire starboard hull (and even upper superstructures) seems rested on the rocks, the tears/holes must be numerous.
- If the keel is damaged, the ship is lost.
- Bulbious bow-sonar may be saved ? (he would not have touched the rocks?)
- Considering the early very-heavy aft-listing, at least the starboard propeller is damaged & the starboard shaft maybe ? twisted.
- For the above-water damages, the long tear on the starboard side (near the hangar) can be repaired.
- Given the level of ship-sinking (and the fact that all the crew evacuated the ship in urgency), all the large compartments look flooded. Machinery & turbines are probably badly damaged by water.
- Due to the level of flooding through the ship, the ENTIRE electrical system of the ship is to be redone.
- Oil leakage prove that the fuel-tanks are holed.
- I am worried about the aegis system, ?the listing may have damaged the electronic components?
- If there is a big storm soon (heavy sea), it will aggravate the overall damage !

For me this ship was lost "too damaged, beyond economical repair".
The Norwegian navy will probably cannibalize it, for the benefit of the other 4 frigates of the same class


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: November 10th, 2018, 7:16 pm
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Colombamike wrote: *
Damage's looks monumental (=> for a modern warship)
Quote:
- The entire starboard hull (and even upper superstructures) seems rested on the rocks, the tears/holes must be numerous.
at the moment what we know trough the media here in Norway, is that the damage on the hanger and torpedo room comes from the anchor, and the underwater damage comes from the tankers bulb.
Quote:
- If the keel is damaged, the ship is lost.
The class have a special designed double keel design for better survivability if it hit some thing or are close to an explosion, due to what they learned from Oslo class (HNoMS Oslo) when it sank when it ran aground. The design have never been realy tested, so this would be interesting.
Quote:
- Bulbious bow-sonar may be saved ? (he would not have touched the rocks?)
I will say the bow-sonar is damaged, they ran it head on ground, and first later turned her around, something that made her capsize, and made the flooding worse, due to water coming in trough the upper deck damage.
Quote:
- Considering the early very-heavy aft-listing, at least the starboard propeller is damaged & the starboard shaft maybe ? twisted.
She was hit from stern to hangar, so I would say yes.
Quote:
- For the above-water damages, the long tear on the starboard side (near the hangar) can be repaired.
it's mainly stores for the hangar, cabins and one of the torpedo room, luckily the torpedo magazine for helicopter, is placed more toward the other side.
Quote:
- Given the level of ship-sinking (and the fact that all the crew evacuated the ship in urgency), all the large compartments look flooded. Machinery & turbines are probably badly damaged by water.
she got unstable very fast, so the engine room, and at least few of the 13 compartments are damaged, but she was staying afloat until the tug pushed here a little to hard.
Quote:
- Due to the level of flooding through the ship, the ENTIRE electrical system of the ship is to be redone.
Quote:
- Oil leakage prove that the fuel-tanks are holed.
the 10.000 liter Helicopter fuel tank is damaged, but the ship fuel are fine, but must most likely be removed before moving of the frigate.
Quote:
- I am worried about the aegis system, ?the listing may have damaged the electronic components?
The system should normally be protected and closed and the main radar are above water with all the electronics in there, so it should be still in fine order.
Quote:
- If there is a big storm soon (heavy sea), it will aggravate the overall damage !
at the moment they have secured here toward land with steel wire and some bolts under water, so she is not going anywhere.
Quote:
For me this ship was lost "too damaged, beyond economical repair".
The Norwegian navy will probably cannibalize it, for the benefit of the other 4 frigates of the same class

if the crew have followed all routines, and they train on this all the time. most of the ship should be intact, except those damaged compartments. I expect the Navy will spend thoise 2-3 years and couple of 10's of millions of $ than try to build a new vessel that would cost the Norwegian government 400-500 million of $.

The Prime Minister (that have always been puting the military on the back burners (economically)) have said, losing 20% of the frigate fleet in a Navy with few ships are a big blow. and the minister of defence, have said that losing one of the frigate is severely damaging the military's capability to protect Norway, where every thing we have counts.

So with that said from the Government. if the frigate is a write off, the Navy would most likely push the government for a replacement or an extremely expensive repair. Specially with the knowledge of that the entire skjold class will be retired in 2024, the government have said the MLU is to expensive for a ship that mostly are build for one role.


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: November 11th, 2018, 11:38 am
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The VHF sound log have been released on Norwegian news, there would probably come a english translation soon. with radar log.


basically "Sola TS" could see "HNoMS Helge Ingstad" on radar, but no one know how it was, only when Fedje-radio put 2+2 together and realized it must be the frigate, first then they managed to get contact with the frigate. and warned about that they are getting to close. but the communication is somewhat messy...


points that have been mentioned in media and on the VHF:

- Light from Stura terminal (oil) where "Sola TS" come from, might have hided the ship a bit+ plus the fenonomen of both ship come at an angle making "Sola TS look smaller than what it is. (weird, radar)
- at the moment of the collision "Helge Ingstad" accelerated on radar picture from 6-9 knots to 17.5 knots (RADAR)
- Helge Ingstad was moving close to land, due to traffic coming the other way on here port side, 4-5 ships. "Sola TS" had that traffic to her starboard side at a lower speed and thus put itself on collision course with the frigate.
- the frigate had no way to go, move toward starboard and risk hitting land, go toward port and risk hitting 5 ships that are coming the other way, or try to thread the needle in the darkness.
- According to NATO and the Navy, "Helge Ingstad" was performing navigation exercise.
- "Sola TS" wanted "Helge Ingstad" more to starboard, where "Helge Ingstad" informed that they would come to close to land. (VHF)
- "Sola TS" hold an course and speed of 6.5 knots, thus forcing a smaller cargo ship "Vestbris" that was holding 10 knots to do an sharp turn to port, to avoid ramming "Sola TS" from behind (RADAR, media)
- the first tug that was up with "Helge Ingstad", "Ajax" reported that "Helge Ingstad had a hole directly in to the engine room, that what they could see in the darkness of the night. (VHF)
- "Helge Ingstad" was holding/drifting at 5 knots toward land after the collision. (RADAR) (Note: FN class can do 5+ knots on the azimut bow thruster)




I think the entire situation was caused by many causes and everything that could go wrong, went wrong:

- little space to move.
- traffic toward the frigate in two lane
- light from Stura terminal (oil)
- speed in tight water with much traffic
- "Sola TS" might have come out to early
- no one knew the frigate was there, before couple minutes before collision and after a couple minutes of when "Sola TS" left port
- danger of miscommunication during navigation exercise
- slow respons from the frigate, when they was talking about here, reacts only when here name was mentioned... she was listening.


There have come some reaction from other ships that Fedje VTS that control the traffic in the area, was slow in reaction and several time messy in their messages and from time to time you could here several communication going on at the same time.


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: November 12th, 2018, 1:02 pm
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media was allowed to get a bit closer today. securing work is done. she is secured to land with 10 steel wires. The Navy says that it will take some time, before the start the move. first priority, is to remove ammunition, fuel and other loos things that they want to remove there and then.

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: November 12th, 2018, 6:58 pm
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Now in the media here in Norway, they are talking about that "Sola TS" might have hold wrong course, they should holding a course more south, where the was traffic in the same direction as the ship... But at a different speed, but "Sola TS" hold a course in the northern side, where traffic from the other direction was coming... The frigate...


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Colombamike
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: November 12th, 2018, 7:34 pm
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More this warship stays in the water, the less it will be saved
Days are numbered
I hope to see high-resolution photos of the starboard damage, on the barge, with the details of the damaged underwater hull


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