Shipbucket
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Shipbucket legal status
http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7583		 Page 3 of 4
Author:  Colosseum [ March 28th, 2017, 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shipbucket legal status
No. Putting a watermark over the entire image will not work - remember that Shipbucket drawings must be easily editable by anyone, and having an overprinted watermark ruins the concept entirely.

Also, we can't put "COPYRIGHT SHIPBUCKET" on any drawings, because they are not copyrighted - getting an actual copyright for this kind of work is a long and difficult process.

I'm not opposed to having a publishing date somewhere on the template but sadly I'm afraid most wouldn't bother filling it. :( Thank you for at least responding with suggestions though!
Quote:
Well sofar the standard shipbucket template have not prevented unlicenced use of our work. There are alot of cases in the internet where shipbucket drawings are being presented without the template, credits, or the watermarks.
Yeah, this is basically what I was thinking. We can't really easily prevent our work being reposted without credits - so I wonder if it might be best to move to a CC license and then have the additional standing that comes with it? It's a tough decision but ultimately one I think is necessary to clarify before we move forward.
Author:  HyperHiggsHelix [ March 28th, 2017, 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shipbucket legal status
So, the CC license is our best bet at anything now?
Author:  acelanceloet [ March 28th, 2017, 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shipbucket legal status
could the CC licence be interpreted as 'if you use our image, do not alter it, but if you modify it you must credit' ?

so people who just would use shipbucket images for publications, websites or purposes like that would have to leave the credit untouched, but people who modify the images have to credit, for which we conveniently have already marked a space but it is allowed to do so in other ways as well?
Author:  Novice [ March 28th, 2017, 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shipbucket legal status
I would think that the CC agreement has just a bit more intimidating "sound" than the old fair use agreement we currently have. If it also means stripping the template and scale bar, I believe it will detract some what from the Shipbucket idea, of a rigid scale for the drawings. That said, I think a little compromise as to the scale bar and watermark need to be reached. It is important to protect our work, but as already mentioned it is some what difficult when and if someone wants to remove the credits, watermark and any distinguishing aspect of a Shipbucket drawing, and post on the web as his own, a thing that was done many times in the past, and which I'm sure will occur in the future.
Author:  Navybrat85 [ March 29th, 2017, 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shipbucket legal status
I have an odd question...If someone were to use a SB image for a publication, unfit though they are as Colo laid out earlier...would proper crediting be an issue, as far as tracing it to a particular artist? What I mean is, "Navybrat85" has no meaning outside of Shipbucket. Where I've seen, for instance, the Alaska class drawing Colo has done the credit has been done to Ian, not Colosseum.
Author:  Hood [ March 30th, 2017, 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shipbucket legal status
In the published example I gave earlier from Warship, the scale bar was retained but the artist was acknowledged in the picture caption. At the reproduced scale you wouldn't have been able to read the credit anyway.

Actually in publishing you find that the source/credit is almost always in the caption line e.g. "Drawing of HMS Hood (James Jackson)".
Perhaps in the new website we should have the ability to create a caption textbox for each drawing which sits alongside the drawing on the site?

The few artists here who have been published renewed the credits to their real name rather than the avatar name used here.

As to the scale bar, I'm not sure the scale bar is even 100% accurate in scale. And its always seemed very odd to me that the scale bar is in metres when the scale of the drawing is 2 pixels per 1 foot! Mixing imperial and metric measures seems quite odd in some aspects.
Maybe the scalebar could be redesigned/ refreshed, though we'd have to stick to anti-alised text for the title/credits.

Removing the credits and watermark from the template would be problematic to protecting the original artist's work. I'm less concerned with protecting the SB concept than the original artist's rights. I view SB as more of a collective of artists as each artist has their own style. A CC licence might help with more legally sounding clout but its no panacea answer to our problems.
Author:  Gollevainen [ March 30th, 2017, 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shipbucket legal status
The CC licencing is not the perfect solution. But there hardly is such in the unperfect world.
Shipbucket as a concept is allready challenging in terms of individual and collective ownership of the rights. The CC license would in our plans cover the stuff in the new archive and By submitting the upload, artists then agrees to its terms in what comes to the use of those drawings.

As I've pointed out many times, despite our efforts, the outside and unlicenced use have not bothered to care about our template/credit tag policy, and I don't believe we could ever impose anything that would actually overcome this and at the same time be affordable and point of aquiring. While the template rules have their Place inside our community, I don't believe they should be the excluding factor of getting the outside use protection into bit better level than it is now. While we cannot tell people NOT to remove the templates in the licence agreement, we don't at the same point NEED to mention that they can do that. Sometimes obscure wording can atleast hope to improve the situation, if the message and warning factor of this licence would be stronger in impact, that our previous own fair use clause has been.

Shipbucket has always been non-commercial Project. Placing the archived works under the CC license would enforce this more than before. In some extreme cases it migth Place people under the choise wether they want to pursue some commercial fantasies over their own work or be part of the Shipbucket community. As we transfer the old material to the new archive, those people would naturally get change to withdrawn their work if they so insist.
Author:  CraigH [ March 30th, 2017, 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shipbucket legal status
Is it possible with the new Forum and archive to record specifically who downloads each drawing so we can at least track to some degree where they are going? May make it a bit easier to trace theft and miss use.

With some written notification in the usage requirements it may help as a deterrent. Note also, the coding and particulars are outside my knowledge base.

CraigH
Author:  Colosseum [ March 30th, 2017, 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shipbucket legal status
acelanceloet wrote:
could the CC licence be interpreted as 'if you use our image, do not alter it, but if you modify it you must credit' ?
No. Anyone who makes derivative works of something covered under the CC license just has to provide attribution to suit the terms of the license. We are not allowed to change the wording of the license ourselves, but we can state our preference for how attribution is shown.
Quote:
I have an odd question...If someone were to use a SB image for a publication, unfit though they are as Colo laid out earlier...would proper crediting be an issue, as far as tracing it to a particular artist? What I mean is, "Navybrat85" has no meaning outside of Shipbucket. Where I've seen, for instance, the Alaska class drawing Colo has done the credit has been done to Ian, not Colosseum.
I assume they could contact us to determine whether or not the original authors want to provide their real names or use the username on the drawing credit.
Quote:
Actually in publishing you find that the source/credit is almost always in the caption line e.g. "Drawing of HMS Hood (James Jackson)".
Perhaps in the new website we should have the ability to create a caption textbox for each drawing which sits alongside the drawing on the site?
One of the required fields on any drawing submitted will be the author name, which will then tie to a user field in the system (allowing people to search by author etc). Generating a small caption will be easy.
Quote:
Is it possible with the new Forum and archive to record specifically who downloads each drawing so we can at least track to some degree where they are going? May make it a bit easier to trace theft and miss use.

With some written notification in the usage requirements it may help as a deterrent. Note also, the coding and particulars are outside my knowledge base.
Not particularly. You'd end up with just IP addresses and that's really not any use to anyone. Our best defense comes from a good legal framework to go off - Gollevainen and I have been refining what we want in private chats. We will post the full verbiage shortly.
Author:  HyperHiggsHelix [ March 30th, 2017, 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shipbucket legal status
Final question for now. If this goes through the way we want, how will it affect already existing drawings, both ones here and the bootleg ones elsewhere?
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