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eswube
Post subject: Re: FD Aircraft 16Posted: December 9th, 2018, 10:01 pm
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Nah, don't worry, the Skytruck will be posted (with An-28). ;)

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nighthunter
Post subject: Re: FD Aircraft 16Posted: December 10th, 2018, 3:44 am
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Eswube, I've been trying to standardize WW2 USAAF/AAC Color Schemes, and its not been easy, especially with all of us trying to do what looks "right", and not necessarily what was probably used.

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Rhade
Post subject: Re: FD Aircraft 16Posted: December 10th, 2018, 7:41 am
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There are still some things to drawn from PL side. ;)

Great work Eswube.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: FD Aircraft 16Posted: December 10th, 2018, 9:15 pm
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@Nighthunter
Well, that's exactly the problem.
It's not even the problem that in some cases, like USAAF Olive Drab (which, to begin with, was different from Olive Drab used by ground forces) there was 1930s Specification No. 3-1 variant, replaced by Bulletin No. 41 variant of 1940, followed by Bulletin No. 48 variant of 1942, then revised Specification No. 3-1 of 1943 and shortly later ANA Bulletin No. 157 (also 1943), followed in 1950 by TT-C-595, then FS 595 in 1956 which was also revised some time later. And most of them were nominally different, but at the same time, especially during the war, various manufacturers delivered paints that actually had slightly different color and also weathered differently, in effect giving the final result that on some modellers' forums was stated along the lines of "whatever you choose will be ok, as nobody could actually prove it didn't really looked like that".
What is real pain in the behind, though, are colors that are supposed to be truly uniform, yet it's next to impossible to find out how that uniformity actually looks like.
In fact, the final straw to me was International Orange - FS 12197.
Because THIS is supposed to be 12197, and THIS (5th row) is also supposed to be 12197, and ALL THESE colors are also meant to be 12197. :roll:

@Rhade
Indeed, feel free to draw them. 8-)

And here's the next batch of long done but previously unpublished drawings:

Let L-200 Morava (Czechoslovakia, Poland, East Germany)
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Zlin Z-26/126/226/326/526/726 (Czechoslovakia, Poland, East Germany)
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Zlin Z-42/142/242 (Czechoslovakia, Poland, East Germany)
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Zlin Z-43/143 (Czechoslovakia, Poland, East Germany)
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Zlin Z-50 (Czechoslovakia, Poland, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Spain, Slovakia, South Africa)
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Lockheed (General Dynamics) F-16 (Poland)
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Lockheed C-130 Hercules (Poland)
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More to come tomorrow.

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Ro-Po Max
Post subject: Re: FD Aircraft 16Posted: December 10th, 2018, 10:23 pm
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Epic work!


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Hood
Post subject: Re: FD Aircraft 16Posted: December 11th, 2018, 9:25 am
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Its a shame that this project had to come to an end, but I always thought it was highly ambitious and when you get into cycles of redrawing it becomes impossible to move forwards.

Colours are a highly controversial topic, that even modellers find hard, let alone our attempts at digital representations.
Given that our raster-art requires compromises and can never be a true and 100% accurate representation of a real-life 3-d object, I don't think it matters to have every shade of colour to be 100% accurate. All colour schemes are compromised in details by the small scale. At best all we can do is aim for is a reliable approximation.

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AF92
Post subject: Re: FD Aircraft 16Posted: December 11th, 2018, 10:21 am
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Quote: So, the Polish Wings will not be continued...

This is truly saddening :( . However, artist's own satisfaction of his own work is the most important.

Anyway, I have always tought that your FD Drawings, especially the latest ones, had the most correct representations of colors. Just like Hood said, It can never be completely possible to fully reflect the actual colors of paintings applied on vehicles. Even if the actual color formula can be found on the Internet or books, the reality depends on how they were actually applied on the field, subtle differences between the production qualities etc.
(saying this as a modeller).

Modelling aside, the representation of colors can differ even more on computer screen and raster-art. So, as was said, it is literally impossible to do it %100 correctly.

That being said, I believe that it is a bit over-reacting to end the project for that (no disrespect intended). A close aproximation based on several sources can never be considered as an incorrect representation of the model when it comes to colors.

By saying this, I kindly would like to make a last-ditch attempt to convince you to not the end this project :). As, the PW has always been considered as an examplary project.

Kind regards


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Rhade
Post subject: Re: FD Aircraft 16Posted: December 11th, 2018, 11:27 am
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With truly titanic work Eswube done in PW it's not too much left to do. ;)

It was a great honor being a part of that work and helping Eswube as much as I could. But in some way PW will still live... it was supposed to be a surprise but I did work some time now on helo part of PW. I hoped to drop a gift bomb with start of new year but I can say that now, maybe it will not be regular, maybe not in such scale as Eswube did but PW will be updated from time to time with new drawings. ;)

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eswube
Post subject: Re: FD Aircraft 16Posted: December 11th, 2018, 9:38 pm
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@AF92
I believe that it is a bit poor choice to try to convince someone to not do something by insulting said someone with judgemental remarks on reasonableness of his actions. I'd rather not comment on this any further as I could really over-react.

Besides, I have deliberately deleted all WiP's, specifically to avoid such temptation.

* * * * *

Choice to end Polish Wings (and making FD drawings in general) was not sudden decision caused by annoyance with inability to find clear answer about single color shade. As Hood mentioned, the Polish Wings was a highly ambitious project - with hindsight I'd say that it was too ambitious for a single person (Rhade's involvement was crucial, as He was the actual spiritus movens behind creating it in the first place, but - despite His willingness and best efforts - effectively ended around mid-2013 :( ), especially considering that I quickly developed a manner of doing not only "blanks + Polish paint schemes" but "blanks + Polish paint schemes + lots and lots of other paint schemes", culminating with relatively recent Dakota series :roll: .

In the end, my involvement with FD scale last(ed) 6 years (first post in Polish Wings thread is from 4 January 2013, but of course it took some time to prepare these drawings) during which I've made a quite large number of drawings that - to my pleasure and honor - were generally well received by our Community. Yet, regardless of their reception at the time of posting, over time I saw them with decreasing satisfaction - some were based on poor sources (and therefore of dubious accuracy), "the style" has advanced somewhat - in terms of detailing, shading etc. (down to such things like recently increasingly popular manner of making contours of transparent materials like canopies with non-black color and generally using more pale and greyish blue for them). And of course there's a matter of colors (more of it below). Over time I also managed to gather lots of great source materials that made possible making much better representations of many of them. All of it, put me before a choice between simply adding new works and ignoring that my own dissatisfaction with older ones, or make a "big update" of them. First option would land me in a situation where I would have to endure seeing together (even in single PolWings entry) works styllistically literally "years apart". Second option would mean having to make big, mundane effort with very limited satisfaction from making "genuine and visible" "enrichment" of our Forum's content. For good or bad I chose the second option, but what's worse, not only the process of update didn't gave me any satisfaction, but rather deep frustration.
That, in turn, got combined with "wider" issues. During these 6 years making of FD become practically my main past-time, to the detriment of basically all other past-times. From the source of satisfaction it evolved into a burden ("I wish to have it finally done!..."), and I felt that some tough decisions had to be taken. On the other hand, that satisfaction was not lost in regards to drawing ships - something I discovered with some surprise when I have made several small drawings fairly recently.
You probably can't imagine what a great relief I felt when I made decision to "pull the plug" from PolWings/FD participation and announced it here.
I'm not gonna say that I will never-ever make an FD drawing - actually it's likely that I will make some - maybe some land vehicle, or maybe some ship, or maybe I'll make some AU that will include FD... - but in any case it will be a fresh start, and not a Mega-Project for 6+ years.

As for the colors...
Of course it's a very difficult topic. It wasn't my intention to have a full palette of all possible colors in 100% accurate shades. From the beginning I assumed certain interchangeability between them. After all, human eye, despite being a wonderful instrument, has finite capabilities and there's no point in using separate colors that practically couldn't be told apart unless samples would be put next to each other. But there's a big difference - at least to me - between "close enough" and situations like "so is that 'close enough' actually pale orange or dark red?" (like with the quoted International Orange situation - and it wasn't first such problem I've encountered). And another thing is that in many cases I know that - regardless of what exactly shade the given colour should have - it's definitely not the shade I used (and if anyone needs any examples, I can give you a very easy and quick one - do you seriously think that the intense red used by me in wartime RAF roundels is really a reasonable approximation of the brownish "brick-like" color used in reality? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air ... oundel.svg ).

@Rhade
I'd say there's actually a lot left. ;)
Anyway, I'm really looking forward to that "gift bomb". :)

And now few more drawings.
Few of these are completely "new". Largest group among them are planes that were already included in Airline part of Polish Wings, but now with also military paint schemes added. Slightly "newer" is An-2 - the base drawing is not new, of course, but - with one exceptions - the paint schemes were not posted here before. And MiG-29's were scratch made - DP made an excellent series back in the day, so I did only these entirely on my own just for personal satisfaction (and PW use, of course).

Antonov An-2 (Poland)
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Antonov An-12 (Poland)
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Antonov An-24 (Poland)
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Antonov An-26 (Poland)
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Ilyushin Il-14 (Poland)
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Ilyushin Il-18 (Poland)
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Yakovlev Yak-40 (Poland)
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Tupolev Tu-134 (Poland)
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Tupolev Tu-154 (Poland)
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Mikoyan MiG-29 (Poland, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Germany, Hungary, Slovakia)
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More to come.

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reytuerto
Post subject: Re: FD Aircraft 16Posted: December 11th, 2018, 10:37 pm
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Hi. Eswube:

"... the Polish Wings was a highly ambitious project…"

Probably is the most ambitious project in FD scale in the bucket. An enormous amount of work (the only comparable project is Colosseum´s USN WW2 destroyers and to your own work with the Douglas DC-3... well, also DC-1 and DC-2!), and excellent done drawings. Please, left the door open for the chance of PW 2.0! Cheers!


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