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Weebson
Post subject: Re: United Kingdom of Netherlands and WalloniaPosted: August 18th, 2020, 10:19 am
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heuhen wrote: *
I'm not going to comment on the drawing, but the credit line.

Usually we have a uniform credit line, it would look like this:

Country of origin, class name year predicted
Ship name,
Ship type
(Artist name)
alright taking this in a count, thanks


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Armoured man
Post subject: Re: United Kingdom of Netherlands and WalloniaPosted: August 18th, 2020, 1:07 pm
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stylistically wise, the drawings are ok but I think you are a bit too reliant on other people's parts however I don't think that purely negative, considering that most people start out that way, so keep up the good work my friend can't wait to see you improve

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Work list: 1. Aircraft carrier challenge submission 2. Haruryū class battlecruiser 3. Some protected cruisers and other miscellaneous projects


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schepper911
Post subject: Re: United Kingdom of Netherlands and WalloniaPosted: August 18th, 2020, 8:04 pm
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Damn we are still occupied


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Weebson
Post subject: Re: United Kingdom of Netherlands and WalloniaPosted: August 20th, 2020, 7:24 am
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Drednought Battleships, Battlecruisers

De Ruyter-class Drednought Battleship
[ img ]
De Ruyter in 1912
[ img ]
De Ruyter in 1932 all way to 1947

18,681 tons standard, 22,544 tons full load
Length: 188 m, Beam - 25,7, Beam - 8.2 m.
Armament: 4x2 12" 50 cal (305 mm) guns, echelon layout, 20x1 5" (120 mm) casemate mout guns, 4 18" (457 mm) torpedo tubes - 2 on either side.
Armor: Main Belt: 10" (254 mm), ends 4" (105 mm), upper belt - 4" (105 mm), Deck 2" (51 mm) turret armor: face 12" (305 mm), sides 10" (254 mm), Conning tower 11" (283 mm)
Machinery and speed: coal fired boilers, 4 steam turbine engines, 37,516 shp = 23 knots
range 7500 nm
complemet 866-1070 men

Design and Service History

launch of HMS Drednought In 1905 set panic in Dutch and in fact Admiralties around the world so Dutch admiralty asked Birkenhead to redesign their design from the last "17,000 tonn Battleship" competion. Birkenhead lengthed hull by 52 meters, increased beam to 25,7 meters, repositioned main battery and had speed of 21.5 knots. In January 1905 design was approved but Dutch didn't have docks to build such vessels and in fact even if they had some they would build slowly ~2,5-3 years which was unexceptable for the Dutch Royal Navy, so Dutch went to Vickers as their usual shipbuilder and made a contract to build 2 ships: De Ruyter and Cornelis Tromp, Vickers changed design slightly by increasing speed to 23 knots but Birkenhead got their money for a design anyway and their workers heavily participated in building first Dutch Drednought battleships, Although, in september 5 and 24 1906 De Ruyter and Cornelis Tromp were launched and in July 1 and 16 1907 they were commisioned in the Dutch Royal Navy and immideatly became pride of the Navy until commisionment of HrMS Tijger. De Ruyter stayed in Europe and Tromp was send int East Indies, During The Great War of 1914-1918 De Ruyter along with Kortenaer participated in Battle of Dogger although she havent acomplished anything, not even firing a sot at German Battlecruisers, but she did forced Germans to retreat. In 1916 she participated in Battle of Jutland damaging Battlehip SMS Oldenburg heavily damaging cruiser SMS Hamburg. Her sister meanwhile satyed at East Indies and then was send into Middeterean, supporting Gallipoli and guaring Dardanelles from SMS Goeben along with battlehip Van Der Hagen and Battlecruiser Panther. after 1916 ships were put into reserve and after Armistice in 1918 ships were return to UKNW, and were put in reserve there. Only De Ruyter avoided to be scrapped after concusion of Washington Naval treaty but was refited to training Battleship in 1930 as Agreement after 1st London Naval Treaty, her speed was reduced to 16 knots but after Japan had left Naval treaties In 1936 De Ruyter was refited again getting modern fire control equipment and new machinery (oil fired boilers and new turbines) which increased her speed to 23.6 knots, Dutch Admiralty was criticized for refiting horibly old battleship but in comparion to Tijger and refit process of De Zwijger's it was much cheaper and rational way of managing their fleet considering that UKNW recovered from The Great War and Great Depression and were heavily busy with their Destroyer and cruiser fleets along with submarines which they didn't have in during The Great War, In 1940 De Ruyter was bombed by German luftwaffe and was damaged, after German conquest of UKNW De Ruyter was anchored in Portsmouth until 1941. In 1941 she was used by British Royal Navy as convoy escort for some time until she was send back to Netherlands where she was as convoy raider and shore bombardment ship. Shortly after the war ship was scapped in 1947.

Tjerk Hiddes-class
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Tjerk Hiddes in 1913

[ img ]
Tjerk Hiddes in 1930

23,357 tons standard, 25,734 t full load
Length - 184 m, Beam 27 m, draught 9.2 m
Armament 2x2 (superfiring) and 2x3 (non-superfiring) 14" MkI (356 mm guns), 16x1 6" 50 cal MkII (152 mm) casemate mount guns, 8x1 3" (76 mm) casemate mount guns, 4 18" (457 mm) tibes 2 on either side
Armor: Main belt 12" (305 mm), ends: 5" (125) mm, upper belt 6" (152 mm), deck - 2" (51 mm)
Speed and machinery: coal fired and oil sprayed boilers, 4 Parson geared drive steam turbines 42,443 shp = 23 knots
range: 7500 nm at 10 knots
complement 983-1239 men

In 1909 Britain eceleted Naval arms race further by laying down Orion-class Super drednought battleships. In 1910 Dutch had plans on similar vessels and made several design studdies, they would build them in Netherlands but most of the dockyards were busy bulding Light Cruisers and destroyers and they didn't want to lag behind in capital ship construction so Dutch Admiralty asked Vickers to design vessel similar to now launched HMS Orion, Vickers designed battleship 23,300 ton dispalcement with unusual layout at that time: 2x2 and 2x3 14" guns thats saved weight if this ship had evolving coventional layout of the time. 4 ships were ordered, 2 were laid down at December 2 1911 (Tjerk Hiddes, Kortenaer) to be build in Britain and 2 to be laid down in Netherlnds (Piet Hein, Van Der Hagen) when certain slipways were free which would happen in January 15 1912. first pair of ships were launched in February 1913 commisioning in July 1913 and other half were launched in May 1913 and commisioning in January 1914. Tjerk Hiddes, Piet Hein were stationed in Europe while others were send to East Indies. When War Broke out in July 1914 Tjerk's and Battlecruiser Tijger were supporting Dutch Army with artillery Zuydrzee near Zwarteslur. Later on Dutch Fleet was ordered to be handed to British Royal Navy and fight along with them, Tjerk's from East Indies were call out back to Europe where they were they made up 6th Battlesquadron and were stationed at Rosylth but in September 1915 were now part of Grand Fleet, all 4 ships paticipated in Battle of Jutland. After the World War One, ass all Dtch seized ships they were back to Netherlands, only one ship was scrapped after Washington Naval treaty Piet Hein, no matter how they wanted exhange this ship to De Ruyter but eventually she was send to scrapyard. During World War 2 all 3 Tjerk and Kortenaer were in active convoy escort duties in Atlantic while Van Der Hagen was staioned in East Indies. in 1941 Tjerk was lost with all hands due magzine explosion in battle of Sulawesi from gunfire of Mutsu. After the Battle Van Der Hagen and Kortenaer were send to guard South China Sea where they distrupted Japanese shipping and were defending Hainan from Japanse amphibious landing. in 1944 they were put into reserve and as war ended they were scrapped in 1946 and 1947 respectively




Tijger-class
[ img ]
Tijger in 1917
[ img ]
Tijger after 1930 refit
[ img ]
Tijger after 1943 refit

1913 specifiacation: 28,000 ton standard, 31,000 full load
length 224.5 m, beam 28.5 m, Draught 9.7 m
Armament: 4x2 14" (356 mm (Krupp hardenedsteel) Mk I* (irl Mk "A" Vickers AKA 43rd Year Type (Model 1910)) guns, 16x1 6" 6"/50 (152 mm Mark III casemate) mount guns, 4 3" (76 mm) guns, no torpedo tubes.
Armor: main belt - 9" (229 mm), ends 4" (105 mm), upper belt - 4" (105 mm), deck - 2" (51 mm).
Turret armor: face: 10" (254 mm), sides: 9" (229 mm), roof 3" (76 mm)
Conning tower: 11.2" (280 mm)
speed and machinery: 4 shafts, 36 Yarrow coal fired and oil sprayed boilers, 4 Parson geared drive steam turbines 85,230 shp = 27.5 knots
range: 8000 nm at 10 knots
complement: 1265 men

1930 and 1943 specifications: 31,000 ton standard, 35,000 full load (Panther 30,900 and 34,900)
length 225 m, beam 28.5 m + 2 meters when bulges were added, Draught 10 m
Armament: 4x2 14" (356 mm) Mk I* had changed to 755 kg shells guns, 16x1 6" 6"/50 (152 mm Mark III casemate) mount guns, 4x2 4" (105 mm) dual purpose guns, 8x2 40 mm bofors AA guns (added in 1938) no torpedo tubes added.
Armor: main belt - 9" (229 mm ( made higher from 4 meters to 4.5 meters)), ends 4" (105 mm), upper belt - 4" (105 mm), deck - 4" (105 mm).
Turret armor: face: 10" (282 mm), sides: 9" (229 mm), roof 4" (102 mm)
Conning tower: 11.2" (280 mm)
speed and machinery: 4 shafts, 14 Yarrow oil fired boilers, 4 Brown Curtis geared drive steam turbines 151,769 shp = 31 knots
range: 8500 nm at 15 knots
complement: 1486-1565 men

design and service history
Tijger (Eng: Tiger) was a class of three ships (originally planned as five ships) build for the Dutch Royal Navy (DRN). Designed in respond to The Japanese battlecruiser - Kongo.
The Tijger-class battlecruisers were the most active capital ships of the Dutch Royal Navy during both World War I and World War II, participating in most major engagements of the wars, In World War I after the Netherlands' capitulation Tijger and Leuw went to Britain and were seized by the British. During World War 1, both ships partook in the Battle of the Falkland Islands (Leuw), the Battle of Jutland (Tijger sinking SMS Seydlitz) and the Second Battle of Heligoland Bight. In World War 2, Tijger participated in the sinking of Bismarck, but could not arrive in time to be of major effect to the engagement. She later fought in the Battle of Calabria and the Battle of Cape Matapan before becoming the flagship of the Dutch-British fleet in the Battle of the Sulawesi. Only Panter would be sunk by enemy action in 1941, either by gunfire from Kongou or Mutsu two weeks before the Battle of the Wakatobi. After the war, Tijger and Leuw went into reserve until 1953, when plans were made to turn them into museum ships. Tijger is preserved in Amsterdam, while attempts were made to sell Leuw to Singapore, but due to economic concerns, the plan was aborted and Leuw would eventually be scrapped in 1958

Full Article on this particular ship


De Zwijger-class
[ img ]
De Zwijger in 1916
[ img ]
De Zwijger after 1937 refit

Specification in 1916:
31,000 tons standard, 33,700 tons full load
length - 207.6 m, Beam - 28,8 m, Draught - 9.2 m
Amament: 4x2 15" 42 cal Mk I (381 mm) guns, 16x1 4.7" (140 mm) guns
Armor: Main belt: 14" (356 mm) ends - 4" (105 mm), upper belt - 4.7" (140 mm) Deck - 3" (76 mm)
Turret armor: face 14" (356 mm) sides - 11" (283 mm), roof 4" (76 mm)
Speed and machinery: coald fired oil sprayed boilers, 4 Parson steam tuebines, ihp 78048 = 24 knots
ranger 8000 nm at 12 knots
complement 1254-1371 men

Specification in 1937:
32,900 tons standard, 34,000 tons full load
length - 207.6 m, Beam - 28,8 m +2,2 with bulges, Draught - 10 m
Amament: 4x2 15" 42 cal Mk I (381 mm) guns, 12x1 4.7" (140 mm) guns
4x2 4" (105 mm) Dual purpose Bofors guns
3x3 40 mm pom pom (later replaced with numerous 40 mm bofors mounts)
Armor: Main belt: 14" (356 mm) ends - 4" (105 mm), upper belt - 4.7" (140 mm) Deck - 4" (105 mm)
Turret armor: face 14" (356 mm) sides - 11" (283 mm), roof 5" (102 mm)
Speed and machinery: coald fired oil sprayed boilers, 4 Parson steam tuebines, ihp 82048 = 25 knots
ranger 8000 nm at 12 knots
complement 1349-1454 men

Work on this particular ship began after Queen Elizabeth classes were laid down and since UKNW and Britain had very close tights recently Royal Navy worked with Dutch Royal Navy exhanging technologies and designing philosophies since 1910 (in terms of technology Dutch were ahead in fire control and rangefining equipment), Dutch Admiralty decided to build improoved version of this ships and planned to build 5 ships on Dutch soil which would become the first whole class of capital ships build in United Kingdom of Netherlands and Wallonia. Changes on Queen Elizabeth in comparsion to De Zwijger:
Zwijger was 11.3 meters longer then QE and 1 meter beamer
Secondary battery guns were repositioned
Armor belt increased from 13.5" (343 mm) to 14" (356 mm)
repositioned and more modern, efficent machinery which allowed speed of 24 knots

3 Ships: De Zwijger, Oranje-Nassau and Prins were laid down in december 2, 3 and 6 1912, other 2 were laid down in March 7 and 14 1913. original 3 ships were launched in July 18, 24 and 25 1914 when United Kingdom of Netherlands and Wallonia declared their neutrality in incoming war, but Germany declared war on UKNW at July 4th 1914 and ships were evacuated to Britain as Dutch Royal Army hold Germans in Friesland and Overijssel. Zwijger was commisioned in December 18th 1915 - 4 years since she was laid down but was still in procces of fiting out until end February 1916, her sisters would be commsioned at March and June 1916, Only Zwijger participated at Battle of Jutland fighting along with her British equalvalents in a 5th Battle Squadron of Rear Admiral Hugh Ewan Thomas. heavily damaging Von Der Tann and later damaging battleship Fredrich Der Grosse while not taking sagnificent damage.
After the battle ship was staying in Scapa Flow practicing her gunnery, all three ships came back to Netherlands, Dutch post war economical prevented on completing remaining 2 hulls and it was decided to scrap them. In 1936 all three ships went into full refit and were completed in 1938. During World War 2 Tijger's and Zwijger's were the main work horse of the Dutch Navy, Zwijgers were mainly operating in Atlantic but in early 1941 were send into Mediterranean Sea supporting British forces along with Australian and Dutch Expedionary Forces in Africa, but later as all Dutch Fleet staioned Europe they were send to East indies fighting of Japanese. In december 11th to 12th All 3 ships took acitve action in Battle of Sulawesi, and Oranje-Nassau with combined fire of HMS Warpite sunk IJN Fusou from 8.7 km after her steering gear was destroyed. Zwijger and Oranje-Nassau was supporting Dutch-british-American-Australian fleet at Guadalcanal and were supporting American-British-Dutch troops in Philippines in 1943, In 1944 they were supporting US, British, Canadian and Dutch Army at Normandy landings in june 6 1944. after the war had ended, all ships were put into reserve but reamined in service until 1968 where old Great War Battlship were assisiting American participation in 2nd Indochina war better known as Vietnam War and were finally dicommisioned in 1976, Zwijger preserved as second museum ship along with Tijger and Prins was handed over to Indonesian navy, in 1978 Oranje-Nassau run aground near Borneo where she is still there rusting and broken in half, Prins detonated in anchor in Rotteram in 1954 which took lives of 965 men on board out of 1534 this was apparent desertion of either Indonesian Nationalists or communist sympathizers which suggest that Soviet Union was involved in this directly.


Last edited by Weebson on August 30th, 2020, 6:54 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Weebson
Post subject: Re: United Kingdom of Netherlands and WalloniaPosted: August 20th, 2020, 7:25 am
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Armoured man wrote: *
stylistically wise, the drawings are ok but I think you are a bit too reliant on other people's parts however I don't think that purely negative, considering that most people start out that way, so keep up the good work my friend can't wait to see you improve
Thank you, love your work too


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Weebson
Post subject: Re: United Kingdom of Netherlands and WalloniaPosted: August 25th, 2020, 7:58 pm
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The Project is temporarily closed due to technical problems of computer of mine dying. But few ships will be posted anyways


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Anagonia
Post subject: Re: United Kingdom of Netherlands and WalloniaPosted: August 26th, 2020, 12:08 am
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These are absolutely beautiful and I sincerely hope you get working again. If there's anything I can to help I will.


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Weebson
Post subject: Re: United Kingdom of Netherlands and WalloniaPosted: August 26th, 2020, 4:16 pm
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Ah thanks, time will tell


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Cargil48
Post subject: Re: United Kingdom of Netherlands and WalloniaPosted: August 26th, 2020, 6:16 pm
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Shouldn't a 1937 refit include a more modern looking bow?


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Weebson
Post subject: Re: United Kingdom of Netherlands and WalloniaPosted: August 26th, 2020, 7:25 pm
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Why should it? Qeen Elizabeth's haven't changed that but looking at Tjerk, Tijger yeah might go with that instead


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