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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: July 16th, 2012, 10:36 am
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Thanks. I enjoy doing the smaller craft more than the larger ones as there's more freedom for variations in design for formats as well as being less time consuming to complete.

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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: July 17th, 2012, 12:53 pm
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Well here is Sierans first constructed trade interdiction and scout cruisers of the Tanyurer Class;

[ img ]

Ships of the class;

- SRN Tanyurer (in commission)

- SRN Belaya (in commission)

- SRN Velikaya (cancelled before construction began, became lead ship of the later Velikaya class)


The Tanyurer class of cruisers were the first wholly designed and constructed cruisers for the SRN and were easily identified by their tall masts and four funnels as well as their sleek profile. Designed to counter the construction of the Chikuma class cruisers of the IJN, the Tanyurers were intended to serve as scouts for the fleet during major engagements as well as to sink enemy merchant shipping, using their high speed to outrun potential enemies.
The resulting class was armed with 12 4in quick firing guns arranged two side by side fore and aft and 4 along either side behind bulwarks. 6in guns were originally intended but Naval Hall intervened and selected the 4in for its rate of fire, ease of handling by crews of both gun and ammunition as well as it's ease of manufacture. The guns were operated under local control with a rangefinder mounted above the bridge to assist the sailors when long range gunnery was required (considered unlikely at the time). The ships were also fitted with submerged torpedo tubes, one on either side below the bridge with a total of five torpedoes. In practice these proved difficult to reload and were rarely used.

Amour for the ships was kept to a minimum. They were fitted with a 2.4in main waterline belt which tapered to 0.6in at the ends. Originally thicker armour was planned but speed took preference and in order to allow for the machinery in the designs displacement, the armour was reduced. The forward conning tower was protected by 4in armour but in reality was little used by the command crew, preferring to be seen as taking equal risk as their men and fighting in the main semi-enclosed bridge. Deck armour consisted of 2.3in over the machinery spaces to protect them from plunging shells.

The Tanyurers were powered by twin steam turbines producing 30,000 rated shaft power with steam provided by 12 water tube coal-fired boilers. Typical max sustained speed was 27 knots but in trials both Tanyurer and Belaya reached 43,000shp and 30 knots for brief periods. This speed advantage was to be used in case of encounters with the Chikumas, allowing the Sieranian vessels to retreat or otherwise dictate the terms of battle. Range was 6,600nm at 12 knots, more than suitable for the ships intended areas of operation. This was to prove just as well as re-coaling of the ships whilst underway proved hazardous and was rarely performed.

The class saw action during the First World War against assets of Imperial Germany. Their speed was satisfactory but it was discovered that their performance in a rough seaway was acceptable but not remarkable. With their shallow draught and lack of bilge keels, the vessels tended to make leeway when confronted with strong winds and also proved sluggish in low speed maneuvers.

Post war, the ships were laid up for a time, their machinery worn from 4 years of continuous service. In 1922 Tanyurer was taken in for a refit and reconstruction which radically altered the ships appearance as well as fitting them with ASW and AA equipment. She was also fitted with a float plane and crane for a time but this was removed by 1930 due to impracticality (no catapult was ever fitted). Belaya was also rebuilt in 1924 but did not have the same extensive rebuild as her sister, allowing the ships to be distinguished with ease.

By 1939 the class were still in service, their role now being as submarine and aircraft screens for the battleships where they still had decent speed for the role. Whilst outmatched and outgunned by more modern designs, the crews of the Tanyurers are famous in Sieran for their demonstrated courage and ambition. In fleet exercises the crews have continuously shown that they are no foe to be taken lightly.

---

Whilst this springsharp was made after the drawing, it seems to reasonably reflect the design;

[code]SRN Tanyurer, Socialist Republic of Sieran Tanyurer Class Cruiser laid down 1912

Displacement:
3,537 t light; 3,657 t standard; 4,307 t normal; 4,826 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(445.52 ft / 435.00 ft) x 42.00 ft x (15.00 / 16.43 ft)
(135.79 m / 132.59 m) x 12.80 m x (4.57 / 5.01 m)

Armament:
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.88lbs / 15.37kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
2 raised mounts
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.88lbs / 15.37kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 407 lbs / 184 kg
Main Torpedoes
5 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 16.25 ft / 4.95 m torpedoes - 1.049 t each, 5.245 t total
submerged side tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.40" / 61 mm 310.00 ft / 94.49 m 7.78 ft / 2.37 m
Ends: 0.60" / 15 mm 35.00 ft / 10.67 m 7.78 ft / 2.37 m
90.00 ft / 27.43 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.30" / 58 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 30,000 shp / 22,380 Kw = 27.19 kts
Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,169 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
265 - 345

Cost:
£0.330 million / $1.319 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 91 tons, 2.1 %
- Guns: 81 tons, 1.9 %
- Weapons: 10 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 707 tons, 16.4 %
- Belts: 240 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 444 tons, 10.3 %
- Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,316 tons, 30.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,423 tons, 33.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 769 tons, 17.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,075 lbs / 2,302 Kg = 158.6 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 12.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.563
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.86 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.10 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.70 ft / 1.43 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.51 %, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m, 21.50 ft / 6.55 m
- Forward deck: 15.05 %, 21.50 ft / 6.55 m, 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
- Aft deck: 50.94 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Quarter deck: 18.50 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 17.05 ft / 5.20 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.3 %
Waterplane Area: 12,750 Square feet or 1,185 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 311 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.96
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather[/code]

Hope you enjoy the Tanyurers. Feedback is appreciated.

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Last edited by denodon on January 24th, 2014, 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KHT
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: July 17th, 2012, 1:28 pm
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Me likey! ;)
I especially like the whole sleekness of the design. The lowered quarter deck is also a nice (weightsaving?) touch.


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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: July 17th, 2012, 1:32 pm
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Yeah the quarterdeck was originally to be flush but due to weight concerns (and my desire to have something a little more interesting at the stern) it was lowered. The downside was that it tended to be wet, especially at high speed so the aft 4in guns had to mounted atop of the superstructure to keep them dry (relatively, no matter which gun you were crewing, you'd get soaked by spray at high speed in any sea).

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: July 17th, 2012, 1:53 pm
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I'm honestly not convinced that 4" guns are such a great choice.
You'll be outgunned by just about anything you encounter, be they destroyers or merchant ships, let alone enemy cruisers.

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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: July 17th, 2012, 1:59 pm
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The 4in are small yes but I couldn't find anything else that was available at that time that would have a high rate of fire, decent range and with shells able to be easily handled by the sailors considering none of the guns are equipped with hoists and all shells have to be brought up by hand from the magazines and stowed in the ready use lockers. She's really more of an overgrown destroyer than a true cruiser.

Another thing with the 4in is that it seems to be pretty standard for comparable ship classes from the USN, RN, IJN and German navies. 4, 4.1, 4.5 and 4.7 seem to be average with the lower ones more common.

I'm not disagreeing about being outgunned though as they are if they were to face an opponent superior to them, hence their speed.

EDIT: I've been thinking that during WW1 some 6in Or 5.5in guns might become available for the two ships to use, replacing the dual fore and aft 4in with single 6in. That'd leave the 8 4in guns along either side but would improve the damage potential of the class (and also make them Equal to the Town or Arethusa classes of the RN which have a greater and lesser displacement respectively).

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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: July 18th, 2012, 10:25 am
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Alright guys whilst this isn't a new ship, I've been trying to determine the naval strength in the North/West Pacific regions during 1939. I have composed a far from complete list of vessels that should help with planning. If any of you have changes or more information (especially on IJN assets which I could find very little of), please let me know.

I have excluded vessels smaller than destroyers and support ships from this list as well as merchant raiders as this is a list of warships in the region. I have also excluded the Kriegsmarine and Regia Marina from this list as I have not been able to find any information of their Pacific operations beyond transport submarines and merchant raiders, all of which occurred after 1939.

There are some differences to reality (mostly in the RN Eastern Fleet) however I have tried to minimize most changes as for the most part the Pacific war to come will be similar to reality in terms of starting units. I have deliberately excluded Sieran or her allies from this list as I am not yet certain of their composition.

EDIT: Adjusted font sizes to make fleets easier to distinguish
EDIT II: Added ships of the Regia Marina in the region
EDIT III: Added Marine Nationale force

---

NAVAL STRENGTH IN THE NORTH/WEST PACIFIC REGION 1939
__________________________________________________________




Imperial Japanese Navy 4th (China Area) Fleet;


- Heavy Cruiser 'Ashigara'
- Light Cruiser 'Nagara'
- Light Cruiser 'Tenryū'
- Light Cruiser 'Tatsuta'
- Light Cruiser 'Natori'
- Light Cruiser 'Yūbari'
- Destroyer 'Hayate'
- Destroyer 'Oite'
- Destroyer 'Kisaragi'
- Destroyer 'Mochizuki'
- Destroyer 'Mutsuki'
- Destroyer 'Yayoi'
- Coast Defense Ship 'Izumo'
- Seaplane Tender 'Kamikawa Maru'




Imperial Japanese Navy 5th (North Pacific) Fleet;

- Aircraft Carrier 'Ryūjō'
- Heavy Cruiser 'Myōkō'
- Light Cruiser 'Tama'
- Light Cruiser 'Kiso'
- Light Cruiser 'Yūbari'
- Destroyer 'Shiokaze'
- Destroyer 'Yūkaze'
- Destroyer 'Tachikaze'
- Destroyer 'Hokaze'
- Destroyer 'Shimakaze'
- Destroyer 'Yakaze'
- Destroyer 'Nadakaze'
- Seaplane Tender 'Kamoi'
- Auxilary Seaplane Tender 'Kagu Maru'


United States Navy Asiatic Fleet/ 16th Naval District;

- Heavy Cruiser 'Houston'
- Light Cruiser 'Marblehead'
- Destroyer 'Paul Jones'
- Destroyer 'John D. Edwards'
- Destroyer 'Alden'
- Destroyer 'Whipple'
- Destroyer 'Edsall'
- Destroyer 'Stewart'
- Destroyer 'Barker'
- Destroyer 'Parrott'
- Destroyer 'Bulmer'
- Destroyer 'John D.Ford'
- Destroyer 'Pope'
- Destroyer 'Peary'
- Destroyer 'Pillsbury'
- Destroyer Tender 'Black Hawk'
- Submarine 'Porpoise'
- Submarine 'Pike'
- Submarine 'Shark'
- Submarine 'Tarpon'
- Submarine 'Perch'
- Submarine 'Seal'
- Submarine 'Skipjack'
- Submarine 'Sargo'
- Submarine 'Stingray'
- Submarine 'S-36'
- Submarine 'S-37'
- Submarine 'S-38'
- Submarine 'S-40'
- Seaplane Tender 'Langley'

Royal Navy Eastern Fleet;

- Aircraft Carrier 'Eagle'
- Heavy Cruiser 'Cornwall'
- Heavy Cruiser 'Dorsetshire'
- Heavy Cruiser 'Hawkins'
- Light Cruiser 'Birmingham'
- Light Cruiser 'Cardiff'
- Light Cruiser 'Liverpool'
- Light Cruiser 'Manchester'
- Destroyer 'Dainty'
- Destroyer 'Daring'
- Destroyer 'Decoy'
- Destroyer 'Defender'
- Destroyer 'Delight'
- Destroyer 'Diamond'
- Destroyer 'Diana'
- Destroyer 'Duchess'
- Destroyer 'Duncan'
- Destroyer 'Scout'
- Destroyer 'Tenedos'
- Destroyer 'Thanet'
- Monitor 'Terror'
- Submarine 'Grampus'
- Submarine 'Odin'
- Submarine 'Olympus'
- Submarine 'Otus'
- Submarine 'Pandora'
- Submarine 'Parthian'
- Submarine 'Perseus'
- Submarine 'Phoenix'
- Submarine 'Proteus'
- Submarine 'Rainbow'
- Submarine 'Regent'
- Submarine 'Regulus'
- Submarine 'Rorqual'
- Submarine 'Rover'
- Submarine 'Seal'
- Seaplane Tender 'Albatross'

Regia Marina Tiensen (China) Squadron;

- Colonial Cruiser 'Eritrea'
- Destroyer 'Francesco Nullo'
- Destroyer 'Nazario Sauropod'
- Destroyer 'Cesare Battisti'
- Destroyer 'Daniele Manin'
- Submarine 'Guglielmotti'
- Submarine 'Perla'
- Submarine 'Macallè'
- Submarine 'Archimede'
- Mine Layer 'Lepanto'

Marine Nationale Forces Navales d’Extreme –Orient;

- Light Cruiser 'La Motte-Picquet'
- Aviso 'Amiral Charnier'
- Aviso 'Dumont d’Urville'
- Aviso 'Marne'
- Aviso 'Tahure'

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Last edited by denodon on July 21st, 2012, 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: July 18th, 2012, 12:41 pm
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First post has been updated to include a link to the Gotrige-Sieran alliance page and treaty under the External Links section.

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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: July 19th, 2012, 4:01 am
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Been trying to find more information for ships location in the pacific during 1939 to add to the list above. I have added the units of the Regia Marina that were on China station at the time. Does anyone know what Marine Nationale units were in the far east at the time? The area I'm interested in is the pacific north of the equator and t he west of the dateline.

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denodon
Post subject: Re: The Socialist Republic of SieranPosted: July 19th, 2012, 7:28 am
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Here is the SRN Tanyurer as she appeared during 1917 painted in dazzle camouflage;

[ img ]

With the declaration of war against the German Empire, the SRN mobilized all its suitable fleet units for action against the kaisers surface fleet and his submarines. Tanyurer saw service in the North Sea and Atlantic during 1915-16. During this time she was refitted with new directors and had four of her 4in guns replaced with 6in singles fore and aft as she had originally been designed. Four 40mmauto cannons were also fitted for anti air defense primarily against zeppelins, two mounted either side abaft of the bridge and two aside the mainmast. Whilst the new armament were effective, artillery spotters found it difficult to distinguish between the fall of shot for the 6in and 4in guns.

The Tanyurer saw service primarily as a scout and later a convoy escort though she also spent a brief period serving as a Q ship, two of her funnels painted the same colour as her dazzle scheme to obscure them from a distance. Crews also took to concealing her weapons behind canvas awnings that could be quickly removed once a suspected merchant raider revealed herself or a submarine surfaced for an easy kill.

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Last edited by denodon on May 1st, 2014, 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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