Shipbucket

Well, in that case the hull should be ok. With a lenght of (roughly) 207m and beam of 24m it has ratio of ca. 8,6 x 1, so should be bulky enough. I'm looking forward to see it finished.

Yeah, she has a pretty bulky hull as was desired for trade protection cruisers. Only niggle I have is whether she'd be stable enough with the draft she has and the hangar on top, although the hangar walls are not armored.

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

Draft looks to be around 6m, so it still will be similar to Colossus and Wasp (if at standard displacement). But better avoid giving her too large island.

Well I was thinking an island very similar to the one the Lazarev has. I've never been a fan of the bulky islands. To me I reckon the IJN's Shokakau (or however it's spelt) had the perfect look. Small but functional island.

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

Well whilst taking a break from the carrier I decided to draw another submarine, this time the E II type submarine.



Originally designed as a simple stretch of the E I type, the E II developed into a unique submarine in its own right. The hull was redesigned to improve both surfaced and underwater performance and the disliked stern torpedo tube was removed entirely and replaced by four forward torpedo tubes, each with a single reload. The deck gun was replaced by the now standard issue 3in which could be found on all small craft of the SRN. Below the gun mounting was a small ready-use locker for holding 6 shells. Once those were used, rate of fire was decreased as additional rounds had to be brought up from within the sub. The E II type was also the first submarine of the SRN to be equipped with a single 20mm gun for Anti-Aircraft defense, though field of fire was restricted due to the location of the mounting.

Equiped with free-flooding saddle tanks from the begining, the E II type had a much greater range than its predecessor. New diesel engines also improved surfaced speed from 14 knots to 18 knots. Even with these improvements, the type was still considered to be a coastal defense vessel with a hull too small for the rough North Pacific. Nevertheless, the E II became the most produced submarine in the SRN by 1938.

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

It's been a while since I've done anything here but I suppose I should resume working more here. Whilst I haven't been drawing, I've been developing concept designs for an early dreadnought battleship to be used by the SRN. The date construction begins is 1908 which puts them in the time slot of the major naval building program that began and was budgeted in that year.

Below I will post 3 Project designs for this vessel class. The first two are similar (both armed with 10x 12in guns in twin turrets) only one with triple expansion engines (easier to build for the nation at this point of time with reasonable horsepower requirements) and another with direct steam turbines which may or may not be too powerful for what was historically available in the period.

Additionally I have also come up with a third design armed with 8x 13.5in guns in twin turrets and again steam turbines (I couldn't get triple expansion to work on this displacement without loosing armor).

Speaking of armor, these ships all use the incremental method as this was what was predominant at the time and as such would be accurate to be included.

The intended purpose of this class of vessels (3 to be built) is to provide support with the shore batteries in defending the Port Approaches as well as serving a counter to the Imperial Japanese Navy's first dreadnoughts.

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could evaluate these reports and help decide the correct one.

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

[code]Project A, Socialist Republic of Sieran Dreadnought laid down 1908

Displacement:
16,221 t light; 17,222 t standard; 18,500 t normal; 19,522 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(543.00 ft / 530.00 ft) x 81.50 ft x (25.50 / 26.65 ft)
(165.51 m / 161.54 m) x 24.84 m x (7.77 / 8.12 m)

Armament:
10 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 871.37lbs / 395.24kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
5 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
12 - 5.50" / 140 mm 50.0 cal guns - 88.07lbs / 39.95kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1908 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
5 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.56lbs / 0.71kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
5 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
5 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9,778 lbs / 4,435 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 324.00 ft / 98.76 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 206.00 ft / 62.79 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 324.00 ft / 98.76 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
3.00" / 76 mm 324.00 ft / 98.76 m 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.00 ft / 22.86 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 26,613 ihp / 19,853 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,300 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
793 - 1,031

Cost:
£1.776 million / $7.104 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,753 tons, 9.5 %
- Guns: 1,753 tons, 9.5 %
Armour: 5,638 tons, 30.5 %
- Belts: 2,158 tons, 11.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 856 tons, 4.6 %
- Armament: 1,368 tons, 7.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,196 tons, 6.5 %
- Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,419 tons, 13.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,161 tons, 33.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,279 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1.4 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,457 lbs / 9,733 Kg = 24.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.46

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.588 / 0.594
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.02 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -6.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 22.76 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 26.95 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Aft deck: 25.15 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Quarter deck: 25.14 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.20 ft / 5.24 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.7 %
Waterplane Area: 31,235 Square feet or 2,902 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 769 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.56
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[/code]

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

[code]Project B, Socialist Republic of Sieran Dreadnought laid down 1908

Displacement:
15,579 t light; 16,580 t standard; 18,500 t normal; 20,036 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(543.00 ft / 530.00 ft) x 81.50 ft x (25.50 / 27.22 ft)
(165.51 m / 161.54 m) x 24.84 m x (7.77 / 8.30 m)

Armament:
10 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 871.37lbs / 395.24kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
5 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
12 - 5.50" / 140 mm 50.0 cal guns - 88.07lbs / 39.95kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1908 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
5 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.56lbs / 0.71kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
5 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
5 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9,778 lbs / 4,435 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 282.00 ft / 85.95 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 248.00 ft / 75.59 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Upper: 3.50" / 89 mm 282.00 ft / 85.95 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
3.00" / 76 mm 282.00 ft / 85.95 m 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.00 ft / 22.86 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 31,826 shp / 23,742 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,456 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
793 - 1,031

Cost:
£1.662 million / $6.649 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,753 tons, 9.5 %
- Guns: 1,753 tons, 9.5 %
Armour: 5,665 tons, 30.6 %
- Belts: 2,210 tons, 11.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 745 tons, 4.0 %
- Armament: 1,368 tons, 7.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,282 tons, 6.9 %
- Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,768 tons, 9.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,143 tons, 33.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,921 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1.4 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24,618 lbs / 11,167 Kg = 28.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.588 / 0.596
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.02 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -6.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 22.76 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 26.95 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Aft deck: 25.15 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Quarter deck: 25.14 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.20 ft / 5.24 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.7 %
Waterplane Area: 31,235 Square feet or 2,902 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 767 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.60
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[/code]

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

[code]Project C, Socialist Republic of Sieran Dreadnought laid down 1908

Displacement:
15,767 t light; 16,836 t standard; 18,500 t normal; 19,831 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(543.00 ft / 530.00 ft) x 81.50 ft x (25.50 / 26.99 ft)
(165.51 m / 161.54 m) x 24.84 m x (7.77 / 8.23 m)

Armament:
8 - 13.50" / 343 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,240.68lbs / 562.76kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1908 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
12 - 5.50" / 140 mm 50.0 cal guns - 88.07lbs / 39.95kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1908 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
5 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.56lbs / 0.71kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
5 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
5 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 10,990 lbs / 4,985 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 282.00 ft / 85.95 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 248.00 ft / 75.59 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 282.00 ft / 85.95 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
3.00" / 76 mm 282.00 ft / 85.95 m 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.00 ft / 22.86 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 26,613 shp / 19,853 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 8,600nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,995 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
793 - 1,031

Cost:
£1.741 million / $6.963 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,909 tons, 10.3 %
- Guns: 1,909 tons, 10.3 %
Armour: 5,419 tons, 29.3 %
- Belts: 1,997 tons, 10.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 745 tons, 4.0 %
- Armament: 1,334 tons, 7.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,282 tons, 6.9 %
- Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,479 tons, 8.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,711 tons, 36.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,733 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1.4 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24,031 lbs / 10,900 Kg = 19.5 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 15.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.94
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.44

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.588 / 0.595
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.02 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -6.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 22.76 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 26.95 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Aft deck: 25.15 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Quarter deck: 25.14 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.20 ft / 5.24 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.7 %
Waterplane Area: 31,235 Square feet or 2,902 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 171 lbs/sq ft or 833 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.72
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[/code]

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

Nobody with an opinion? I'm welcome for people to suggest their own design ideas as well. Only limitations are 8-10 12in guns, displacement of under 20,000t, dimensions not exceeding 555" x 85" (largest dockyard slipway and dry dock available in 1908), range of at least 4,000nm at 10 knots and protection for up to 12in shells in incremental layout at least. Triple expansion engines greatly preferred over turbines (turbines were not considered reliable or efficient at the time).

Secondary (but important) specification is that the ship must be as cheap as possible for construction of the three ships of the class and allow funds for the construction of 3 cruisers (the 3:3 ratio naval spec of the period).

Any takers?

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"