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reytuerto
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: February 5th, 2019, 3:17 am
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I am enjoying this challenge since the requirements! But Superboy's cruiser is amazingly powerful for its constricted size! Very well done (as is usual in all his drawings). Cheers!


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: February 5th, 2019, 12:30 pm
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Can I just clarify the rules?
If I read this correctly the entry can be a ship that commissioned anytime between 1945 and 1960 but must have been designed during 1943-48?
So there is no scope for a cruiser, say, designed in 1950 but still commissioned before 1960?

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: February 5th, 2019, 12:39 pm
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Ah, I think atleast in spirit whats intended, the ships needs to be the "last gun cruiser". I think the design date is there to allow older, wartime designs to be inclusive but not exclude older work? Perhaps Colo can confirm what he intended

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David Latuch
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: February 5th, 2019, 6:36 pm
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The presupposition of this scenario is that: France, Belgium and Great Britain are able to repulse the German advance into Belgium. The British and French forces are therefore not forced to evacuate the continent at Dunkirk, France does not fall and the War continues. Consequently the French fleet is not scuttled at Toulon and the Marine Nationale is able to continue ship building.

Due to the high cost associated with the continuing conflict the French the Conseil Superieur de la Marine, the French equivalent of the Board of Admiralty decide to cancel the construction of the battleships Gascoigne and Clemenceau; they do, however, approve of the construction of a class of Large (305mm) Cruisers, the Charles Martel-Class.

France (C6-SA1) Large Cruiser

Charles Martel

laid down 1941

Commissioned 1944

Displacement:
19,708 t light; 20,888 t standard; 23,811 t normal; 26,150 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

710.00 ft / 694.50 ft x 80.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
216.41 m / 211.68 m x 24.38 m x 7.62 m

Armament:
9 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns in single mounts, 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1943 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (8x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1943 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1943 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
56 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns (14x4 guns), 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1943 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,308 lbs / 3,769 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 416.70 ft / 127.01 m 10.73 ft / 3.27 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 416.70 ft / 127.01 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 0.20" / 5 mm
- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 111,421 shp / 83,120 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 22.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,261 tons

Complement:
957 - 1,245

Cost:
£12.862 million / $51.447 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,039 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 6,437 tons, 27.0 %
- Belts: 1,581 tons, 6.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,670 tons, 7.0 %
- Armour Deck: 3,007 tons, 12.6 %
- Conning Tower: 178 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,878 tons, 12.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,354 tons, 39.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,104 tons, 17.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,859 lbs / 14,904 Kg = 38.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 17.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.95
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.68 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.50 ft / 9.30 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m (20.50 ft / 6.25 m aft of break)
- Mid (60 %): 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
- Stern: 21.50 ft / 6.55 m
- Average freeboard: 22.56 ft / 6.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.8 %
Waterplane Area: 40,636 Square feet or 3,775 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 759 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.24
- Overall: 1.02
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


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Last edited by David Latuch on February 6th, 2019, 11:51 am, edited 5 times in total.

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: February 5th, 2019, 7:48 pm
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David, she's very attractive! I wonder how much the main deck 37mm turrets would limit the fields of fire of A and Y turrets.


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David Latuch
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: February 5th, 2019, 8:00 pm
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erik_t wrote: *
David, she's very attractive! I wonder how much the main deck 37mm turrets would limit the fields of fire of A and Y turrets.
Good point! :oops: :roll:

It's been corrected.

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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: February 5th, 2019, 9:11 pm
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Hood wrote: *
Can I just clarify the rules?
If I read this correctly the entry can be a ship that commissioned anytime between 1945 and 1960 but must have been designed during 1943-48?
So there is no scope for a cruiser, say, designed in 1950 but still commissioned before 1960?
Extending the design time window out to 1950 isn't a big deal -- originally the commissioned time window was 1945-1955 (1960 was added later when I realized the Tiger class was commissioned after 1955). The design timeframe wasn't adjusted to fit.

As Gollevainen states, "last gun cruiser" is more important than rigidly adhering to dates, within reason.

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KHT
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: February 5th, 2019, 9:29 pm
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Looking pretty, Latuch. The St. Louis type cruiser and derivaties of the design are all very beautiful ships.

Regarding the Springsharp report: I really think you need to do it over. 0.65 Hull strength? It should be at 1.0, unless you're making room for significant improvements in the future, in which you could arguably leave it a few points above. Right now she'd be breaking up in open seas.

I realize Springsharp isn't a tool that should be treated as the holy gospel, but deviating so far from the program's parameters doesn't seem within the margins of plausibility for the design.

As for the design itself... I feel like the overall armour seems almost absurdly thin. Had it been a regular heavy cruiser it'd be more understandable, but a ship of this size and expense, I think you'd want it protected with a bit more of a margin against whatever it would face. Of course, that might be more up to personal preference, but nonetheless, my five cents.

Cheers.


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emperor_andreas
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: February 5th, 2019, 10:46 pm
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:shock: :o :o :o

She's absolutely beautiful, David! Amazing work, as always!

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reytuerto
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: February 5th, 2019, 11:13 pm
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Wow, David! What a superb ship! Is so heavily armed than in my modest AU fleet is very close to a capital ship!


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