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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Project Cancelled: The Alternative What-If British AircrPosted: May 3rd, 2013, 12:30 pm
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Same way the B-58 did, very long landing gear

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Project Cancelled: The Alternative What-If British AircrPosted: May 3rd, 2013, 1:35 pm
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And a second drawing today, something else from Vickers but this time a little slower!

[ img ]
A Supermarine 305 turret fighter of No. 264 Squadron, RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey in May 1940.

The Supermarine 305 was designed to meet Spec F.9/35 and was based on the Spitfire. The wings, undercarriage and tail unit was hardly modified to allow a short development time and easier mass-production. The dorsal turret carried four .303in Brownings but later switched to four Lewis guns! Merlin-powered it was designed to reach 315mpg at 15,000ft. The Boulton-Paul Defiant won Spec F.9/35 and the 305 didn't even make the top three contenders (Hawker, Boulton-Paul and Armstrong Whitworth).

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Last edited by Hood on October 15th, 2016, 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Portsmouth Bill
Post subject: Re: Project Cancelled: The Alternative What-If British AircrPosted: May 3rd, 2013, 5:55 pm
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Fantastic :D Great designs chaps. My only query is on the P1062. Looking at it I can't see the resemblance between it and the basic Seahawk, in particular the forward fuselage appears totally new. I'd be interested to know if this was a new design.


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Project Cancelled: The Alternative What-If British AircrPosted: May 3rd, 2013, 7:23 pm
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Awesome additions! Fantastic work Hood! :D


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Kilomuse
Post subject: Re: Project Cancelled: The Alternative What-If British AircrPosted: May 3rd, 2013, 8:42 pm
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I'll join the chorus in praising these excellent renditions! The Lewis gun choice seems so interesting, did they expect a shortage of Browning guns? 1940 seems awfully late to be using the Lewis as a turret gun.

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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: Project Cancelled: The Alternative What-If British AircrPosted: May 4th, 2013, 12:21 am
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Hood wrote:
The Supermarine 305 was designed to meet Spec F.9/35 and was based on the Spitfire. The wings, undercarriage and tail unit was hardly modified to allow a short development time and easier mass-production. The dorsal turret carried four .303in Brownings but later switched to four Lewis guns! Merlin-powered it was designed to reach 315mpg at 15,000ft. The Boulton-Paul Defiant won Spec F.9/35 and the 305 didn't even make the top three contenders (Hawker, Boulton-Paul and Armstrong Whitworth).
I look at that and say to myself, "someone actually thought that was a good idea?" :P


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Project Cancelled: The Alternative What-If British AircrPosted: May 4th, 2013, 9:16 am
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Bill, I've copied the plan I had. I agree its Seahawk-ish but then the P.1081 was slightly different too. With the new tail, all-through jetpipe and swept wings I'm guessing this was more than 80% new. Maybe a standard Sea Hawk front fuselage would have been grafted on if it had been built. I've tried to keep the panel lines like those of the Sea Hawk to indicate as much commonality as possible.

I'm surprised at the Lewis guns, by this time the Vickers 'K' had been introduced to replace the Lewis in open-cockpit defensive mounts etc. The fact that the gunner is not in the turret is also odd if he was to reload the magazines with drums, probably not a good idea when you've got a gaggle of Messerschmitt's on your tail! Nice early use of an exhaust flame damper though.

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Project Cancelled: The Alternative What-If British AircrPosted: May 4th, 2013, 1:10 pm
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[ img ]
The Hawker P.1108 in the service of 800 Squadron, Royal Navy circa 1962.

The Hawker P.1108 was a last minute, and unofficial, submission to Spec M.148T/ NR/A.39 (like the Blackburn B.103 (Buccaneer) and the Shorts PD.13). As Rolls-Royce didn't have a suitable engine to allow twin-engines, Hawker used four RB.115 engines. The two crew sat side-by-side. There is no performance data but it was below that required by the specification. The bomb bay could carry a semi-recessed Green Cheese ASM or bombs and Red Angel rockets or RPs. RPs could also be carried under the wings.

The Fairey Green Cheese, originally Fairey Project 7, was developed to meet OR.1123 for use by Valiant bombers and later also the Fairey Gannet and the M.148T aircraft. The Green Cheese was to used against Sverdlov Class cruisers. It was basically a shorter Vickers 5,000lb Blue Boar TV-guided ASM with the GEC radar seeker from the Vickers Red Dean AAM and fitted with a smaller-thrust Smokey Joe booster/sustainer rocket as used on the English Electric Thunderbird SAM. A fixed-wing version would be carried externally by the Valiants and the flip-out winged version above used on the naval aircraft. It was too big fit inside the Gannet's bomb bay (and too heavy at 3,800lbs) and its size grew further. To avoid interception from SAMs on its descent it would jink and then hit the water at a 40 degree angle around 150ft from the target ship. The randome would shear off and an angled surface would force the missile upwards to explode under the keel. Then a predetermined distance splash was favoured but cost overruns and delays and the appearance of Fairey's Sea Skimmer ASM saw it cancelled in 1956. An ultimate development was the Cockburn Cheese (named after the Director of Scientific Research (Guided Weapons) Dr. Robert Cockburn. Green Flash would have had a Red Beard nuclear warhead. Eventually the toss-bombing Red Beard these studies.

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Last edited by Hood on October 15th, 2016, 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Project Cancelled: The Alternative What-If British AircrPosted: May 4th, 2013, 1:27 pm
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Interesting history and designs.


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Project Cancelled: The Alternative What-If British AircrPosted: May 4th, 2013, 8:06 pm
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Another great addition about the project I had no idea about. Awesome work!


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