"THE" AU thread

Some of you may know that I've decided to make little overhaul on my AU projects and now it's time to reveal the tuned up project. It's basicly combining the two paralel AU ideas of mine into single alternative universum. This has forced me to basicly rewrite the histroy of Europe but it's been worth of the effort.

This AU thread is based around three AU nations:
Komintern and it's predeccor Byzantine Empire, Finland and as a new addition Republican Spain. I will post individual introductions to each nations later on. Here it is as it looks on the map (in 1991):
[ img ]

Timeframe of this AU thread is from the east and west Roman creation into 2011 however most of the drawings will focus on 20th and 21th century ships. But who knows if I get spark on drawing ships of earlier era's what might turn up for this AU. Rest of the world remains the same as much as possible. Russia naturally doesen't have the north-west territories now assigned to Finland and Turkey, Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Moldova, Greece and Cyprus doesen't exist. Scandinavia compromises Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland.

In historical aspect, the idea is based on what if Byzantine Empire managed to survive and flourish troughout the history and what if Finland was independent Kingdom since the crusade days? As the sosialistic flauvor is strongly emphasised in this idea, both nations turned "red" after WWI. This opens interesting prospects and thus the third idea is that what if republicans in spanish civil war would have won with the help of Komintern? Thus we have for the WWII and coldwar slightly stronger and different type of eastern block which is in fact more of "alliance of Soviet Union (and it's puppets), Finland, Komintern and Republican Spain" in more of the sense as an true alliance as the west had, not just one power with satelites around it.

As for the actual ships and navies, they follow the familiar path of my AU's. Komintern/Byzantine is the home of real life soviet/russian never-where designs used as a base for my AU fleet. I've explained about the idea in the past so no need for it now. Finland in otherhand is based on the idea to buffing up the existing fleet in real-life into resableling more of a navy rather than shipborne section of the coastal artillery with the available never-where ideas and what ever I end up inventing for them...Republican Spain was first little bit mystery for myself but then I realised that I had the wonderfull and intriguing Romanian real life fleet (in stereoids) unused in this scenario. This it sailed west and found home in Spain.

I introduced the shipchart idea in my previous AU threads and it will continue in here. Basicly I will post certain group of ships in single sheet, not individual ships. Now that there is three nations, it would be quite desperate to follow it if I post ships from various nations in some random order.

PS: Altough I'm always honoured and flatterned when others use my style in these AU ideas but few notes regarding that: Weapons and systems. In the past I've noticed that people tends to use my AU radars, weapons and other partsheet stuff in their own AU or personal designs or even worse in real-life russian ships as they don't bother to do some research to which is real and what is not. So don't use the stuff posted in "partsheets" in this thread. They are only for this AU.

I can't wait to see drawings! Sounds Great. Dutch and Japanese will keep strong in my AUs

I find the fact that you've coloured Scandinavia in a single colour? Are Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Iceland one country?
I've tried to make an AU about a Second Kalmar Union, but the consequence of a sizeable military power in such a strategic position always goes butterfly on me.

_________________
“Close” only counts with horseshoes, hand grenades, and tactical nuclear weapons.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error

Worklist

Source Materiel is always welcome.

Yeah as a counterweight for more powerfull Finland there must be a balance in the west:)

Gollevainen wrote:

Yeah as a counterweight for more powerfull Finland there must be a balance in the west:)

Sounds interesting. I'll be looking forward to your revised European history.
I assume the early to mid eighteen hundreds are going to be interesting since you now have a navy that's quantitative, as well qualitatively, equal to the Royal Navy.

Quote:

I assume the early to mid eighteen hundreds are going to be interesting since you now have a navy that's quantitative, as well qualitatively, equal to the Royal Navy.

Indeed and in fact during the 1878 war against the Ottomans, Byzantine won the war basicly becouse it defeated the Royal Navy in the battle of Navarino (in real life this battle was against ottomans and in 1828 but I altered the course a bit;))

Rolling three AUs into one does indeed create THE AU thread of all time.
I'm sure we're gonna see some real treats here... I'm just drooling thinking about what Republican Spain has in its navy!

_________________
Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

Here's for a starter little briefing on Byzantine's history before 1914.

BYZANTINE EMPIRE – EAST ROME
East Rome’s transforming into the Slavic ruled empire known as Byzantine in the west started in 670 after Slavic tribes begun to intrude into the empires areas in Balkans. These tribes were mainly Bulgarians which managed to gain stronghold in the Balkans as the Byzantines armies were fighting in the east.

In 631 Bulgarians organised into sovereign empire know as the Bulgarian Empire. This led to a several wars between the two realms and culminating in 896 to the defeat of the Byzantine Empire against the Bulgarian Tsar Simeon I. Simeon forced Byzantine to pay monthly tribute to the Bulgarians. In 912 Byzantines Emperor Leo VI died and the throne was inherited by his daughter Constantia. Simeon’s grandiose plans to absorb the Byzantine Empire moved ahead. He forced the new empress to give the Bulgaria an empire status and take his son Nikolai as her husband. Constantia gave a birth to a son Aleksey. Nikolai died in 922 and Aleksey was now heir to both of the realms. After Simeon I death in 927 a war broke out between the two empires as Bulgarian nobles refuses to acknowledge Aleksey as their new ruler. The war ended in to a Byzantine victory and in 932 and Constantia stepped down from the throne and gave the Emperor title to his son. Aleksey was now the Emperor of Byzantine and Bulgaria.

The new emperor faced a lot of internal problems as he was considered half-breed in both sides of the realm. This started the Byzantines civil war which reigned throughout almost the whole reign of Aleksey. Pacifying the Bulgaria areas, Aleksey granted titles and lands to the Slavic nobles which in the countryside grated great dismay among the Creek population. As a concession to the Greeks, Aleksey gave her fist son name Basileos and he received traditional Byzantine upraising.

After Aleksey’s death in 976, Basileos II took the throne as a new emperor. His great diplomatic skills and power manages to pacify the empire and Byzantine begun its recovery from the civil war. Basileos II acquired new ally from the north, Kievan Rus, which ruler Vladimir the Great married Basileos sister Anna in 988. As a part of the matrimonial agreement Vladimir accepted the Christian fate for himself and for his people.

The new millennium saw a switch in Byzantine Empire’s sphere of interest. It wasn’t single decision but a series of events which ultimately transformed Byzantine as the empire of the southern-Slavic people and the expansion to north. In 1070 Seljuk Turks attacked into the Asian Minor which drives Byzantine away from Anatolia and bringing the new enemies into close proximity of the capital. Also Norman invasion in Italian peninsula drives Byzantine slowly away from there.

In 1095 Pope called the first crusade and Byzantine benefitted considerably from the decreasing of the Muslim power in the Asian Minor. Also a new Komnikov-dynasty ceded the power in Byzantine. The following century is often called Komnikovic-era which saw Byzantine steadily expanding.

In 1118 Ioan II Komnikov became the emperor and Byzantine started grown in power. Ioan II made alignments with the crusaders and HRE which allowed him to conduct several successful campaigns against the Turks as well as Hungarians and Serbs. In 1125 Byzantine conquered Walachia and Moldova and eventually the whole southern bank of Black sea up until to the Sea of Azov before 1180. Ioan II’s work was continued by his son Manuel I.

The 12th century is often regarded being one of the most prosperous eras of medieval Byzantium history. The good times were to end however. In the end of the century Byzantine lost hold of the Croatian and Serbian lands in the west. In 1198 Pope called for the Fourth crusade to conquer Egypt but it eventually emerged as an invasion of Byzantine after deals made by the deposed Emperor Isaac II with crusaders. In 1204 the crusader army struck into the capital and nearly ended the days of the empire. The capital and Trace was placed under the crusaders rule as the “Latin Empire”. Empire of Nicea was created to the Asian Minor and Despotate of Epirus into the western parts of Greece. Areas above Bulgaria were named Empire of Bulgaria but it soon became the “empire in exile”.

Misfortunes for the remnant of the empire didn’t end as a new wave of havoc stormed from the east. Mongol invasion struck the north-bank of Black Sea in 1240 and Byzantine was forced to leave the area as well as pay tribute to the new brutal overlords. The Mongol invasion had some positive affects too as it decreased the Seljuk Turks rule in the Asian Minor. In 1259 Michael VIII Balegov rose to the throne of Empire of Nicea and declared himself as the sole emperor of Byzantine. Michael VIII had lot of support in the Bulgarian parts as well, and the old Emperor Marcus II names Michael as his heir and thus effectively uniting the empire once again. In 1263 Byzantine took back the capital and Thrace after triumph war against the Latin empire. The end of the century is slow healing for the Empire. Byzantine focused on rebuilding the capital and fortifying the areas in the western part of Asian Minor but does not venture into wars reclaiming the rest of the Anatolia.
After Michael VIII death in 1282 his son Andrei II became the emperor. His reign was shadowed by the new threat: the newly formed Ottoman Empire which started vigorous expansion towards Byzantine areas. The remnants of Asian minor were lost to the Ottomans before the 1300. To dismay of many, Andrei II was not keen to oppose the Ottomans in Anatolia. He was more interested of strengthening the Byzantine rule over the European continent in Greece, Balkan and Walachia. Andrei II continued the fight against the Latin Empire and denounced the Pope’s rule over eastern orthodoxian Christians.

In 1341 new 10 year old Emperor, Ioan V rose to the power. During his regency years Byzantine launched several successful attacks on northern Black sea coast which were under Mongol rule. These were partially revenge attacks after Mongols had launched raids to Thrace decades earlier. After Ioan V gaining full age, he started series of successful wars against the Kingdom of Hungary and Serbia and eventually annexing the latter in 1385.

Relations with the Ottomans changed and several wars were fought between 1394 and 1453. These wars were usually fought one or two years often ending in tie, followed by few years of peace and then restarting. Both sides managed to gain advantages in the various parts of the war but always these being halted down by the other side. Ottomans finally gained upper hand in 1424 when they occupied Thrace and encircled the capital. Ottomans were unable to break the walls of the mighty City and thus they agreed to a peace which gave Thrace to their possession. The peace was merely an armistice and both sides were preparing for the ultimate fight.

In 1453 the hostilities broke out. Ottomans had brought huge army of nearly 100,000 troops into Thrace. Byzantine however had made deals with the Venetians over naval assistance and together with Byzantines own fleet they blockaded Ottomans sea access to the Marmara Sea. The Ottoman army was trapped and destroyed by the emperor Konstantin XI Balegov to the last men. After releasing the capital’s siege, Konstantin XI’s troops fought the decisive battle in the eastern flank of the City and Ottomans were forced to concede the Byzantine victory. This ended the Ottomans ambitions towards Europe for a long time.
****************
In 1797 Mikael XVI, raised to the throne and it markerd the start of the “modern era” of the empire which however remains its last. Mikael X shared great devotion to the ideals of the enlightment philosophers and thus transforming the empire into de facto constitutional monarchy. This although caused a lot of distress among the aristocrats did pave way for the return of Byzantine as the predominant superpower of Eastern Europe.

One of the ambitions of Mikael XVI was expanding Byzantines rule beyond the normal sphere of interest and accumulating colonial possessions. These gained huge step forward when Byzantine managed to get hold of the Sumatra Island in Indonesia after individual inheritance from VOC’s wreck being realized for the empire.

Strengthening the rule in the close proximity continued as well and in 1828-29 Byzantine and Russia attacked Ottoman Empire. Russia gained lands in Caucasus and Byzantine captured middle-Anatolia and Egypt. The latter further improved Byzantines ability to continue its expansion into far-east and ideas to build a navigable canal between the Red Sea and Mediterranean emerges. Byzantine also conquered Crimea peninsula from the Ottomans causing drift between the two orthodoxian powers. Russia considered Crimea being their sphere of influence but Byzantine regarded it as old Roman colony and thus legally Byzantines.

In 1842 Byzantine followed UK’s lead and attacks Qin dynasty in china in the First Opium war and conquered the province of Quanshi and Hainan. These further worried the British Empire as Byzantine was steadily growing to become the most important adversary for them in the colonial race. Before the war, Byzantine wages war against the Kingdom of Ethiopia and forced it as the empires vassal and in effect a colony.

The ever growing power of the Byzantine Empire begun to worry western powers especially the UK, which started actively supporting the declining Ottoman Empire as a counter-weight for Byzantine Empire. In 1853 UK managed to convince other European powers and Ottomans to attack Byzantine. Russia remained neutral in exchange of Crimea which was to be handed over to it after the victory. Byzantine wasn’t able to withstand the vastly superior attackers and is forced to give up Bosnia and Vojodvina for Austria, middle-Anatolia and Egypt back to Ottomans and Crimea to UK which later returns it to Russia.

French engineers complete the Suez Canal in 1869.

In 1870’s saw dramatic change in European power politics. Germany and Italy are united and Byzantine saw its opportunity to gain back of the lost territory. Byzantine attacked Ottoman Empire in 1877 but only UK sent its fleet to help the Ottomans. Byzantine however defeated the Royal Navy in the battle of Navarin. After this triumph, Ottomans were quickly defeated and Byzantine gained back both Egypt and middle-Anatolia.

In the aftermath climate, Byzantine allied itself once again with Russia thus reforming the “Roman commonwealth” dating back from the 1722. In 1892 Roman Commonwealth allied with France in the case of possible German attack. This led to Germany allying with Austro-Hungary. Byzantine and Austro-Hungary relations worsened after the latter’s annexation of the Kingdom of Bosnia that that was created after the Crimean war. The increased tension imploded out in 1914 when Slavic nationalist shot crown-prince Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo. That forced Austro-Hungary to declare war upon Byzantine which in return drags Russia, France, Germany and UK into the war.

I like this history,good effort!

History continues

KOMINTERN

Socialistic movement inside Byzantine Empire grew rabidly in the early 20th century. The overall authorial and tyrannical rule of the Emperor Ioan XV caused a lot stir among the more enlighten fractions of the population and demands for reformations were increasing. In 1910 after Ioan dissolved the Duma, large strikes and revolts spread across the realm. Worried about the destabilation of the country, Ioan XV agreed to new elections and for the first time allowed the socialistic union to attend the elections. Socialist gained a lot of votes but wasn’t able to form the majority as the bourgeois parties still held the upper hand in total.

Inside the socialist union, the power struggle between the social democrats and communists led by Lev Trotsky grew but still despite the internal rivalries, the union managed to won the 1914’s elections mainly for their anti-war ideology. The event war had put a lot of strain on the society as the arm race was hogging all the resources of the realm. Ioan XV threaten to break the duma if the new socialistic majority wouldn’t support the belligerent policy of the Emperor. Desperate to keep hold of the newly gained power, the Socialistic Union agreed to this. This however infuriated Trotsky and the communist faction started to boycott the work of Duma.
In the summer of 1914 after the shots of Sarajevo World War I broke out. Austro-Hungarian Empire along with the Ottoman Empire declared war upon Byzantine and Russia, Germany, France and United Kingdom soon followed on the sides of their allies. After initial maneuverings alongside the fronts the war soon settles for stable trench-war. The war is very unpopular among the vast majority of the population and the communists are using this to increase their own support. Failing to fulfill the promises of shift and fast victory causes a lot of anti-war sentiments among the army and navy as well.

The northern neighbor Russia was facing similar difficulties and in February 1917 The Tsar Nikolai II is taken out of power and revolution spreads across the lands. These events greatly increase the revolutionary tendencies among the Byzantine people and elements of rebellion start to emerge. USA joins the war on the entente side and Ottomans and Austro-Hungarian realms starts to crumble. Ottomans starts to seek separate peace with Byzantine and Ioan XV is inclining to agree to it as the main reason for the war was to cede the Slavic areas of Austro-Hungarian Empire. However in the Asian Minor, the army is in the break of total Mutiny and the whole eastern command fells under communist rule. The rebellious army declares themselves as the Red Army and states that they are only taking commands from the preventatives of the proletarian class. Although the official stance of the Ottomans are still on ending the war, Generals of the Ottoman army sees the this as the opportunity to change the tide of the war. Ottoman army attacks the red army and heavy fighting continues in the Asian Minor. Ioan XV sees the situation desperate but acknowledges that he has no means to oppose the rebellious troops. Thus he silently allows the Ottomans to do the containment of the rebel knowing that it may end in ceding lands to the Ottomans in the Anatolia.
Emperor’s acts are seen as treason and the opposition against the imperial rule increased. In the western front Austro-Hungarian realm is also falling apart and the Croatian led south Slavs are starting to rebel the Wien rule. Working together with local communists they start to fight against the Austro-Hungarian army. In the course of the events in 1917, Trotsky began to shape the idea of Communist realm rising from the ruins of the falling empires. In early 1918 the Red army won the Ottoman armies in Anatolia and effectively Ottomans ends all hostilities in the war. Asian Minor is now mainly on Communist rule and Nikean Republic is formed. General Timoshenko, leader of the Red Army isn’t pleased of the creation of the separatist Republic but after discussing with Trotsky’s delegate, they decide to not make any attempts to overdue the Republic. Trotsky had agreed with the Republic’s representatives that the republic would join the new Communist federation to be formed in the place of the Imperial rule.

The whole empire began to fall apart. Major cities and industrial centers fell under the rule of workers committees and troops in the western front begun to rebel as well. In the midst of the chaos Central powers war fighting abilities also decorated and this left odd power vacuum in the western front. Byzantine is promised to have the lands of Croatia, Slovenia, Vojodvina and Bosnia but the western powers does not see Byzantine in the shape of accumulate these gains. Yugoslavs themselves are not keen on joining the imperial Byzantine but are instead in the alliance with the communist movement. As the war effectively against the foreign powers ends, Trotsky began the revolution to bring the rebellion inside the empire to its ultimate victory. Officially launched in January 1919 the revolution spreads fast inside the Empire but in the foreign states as well like in Hungary. In the summer most of the realm is under Communist rule. British intervention troops cedes Crete and tries to land in Cyprus as well but the Red fleet and Army manages to drive of the intervention troops from Cyprus.

In March 13th 1919, the Communist International is formed in Belgrade. Its idea is to be an state-like structure over the expanding revolution as well as sort of international state for all the working class. In effect it was just communist ruled version of the Byzantine. But in its early years the idea was that all the nations emerging from the post-war chaos would join in it. At the Belgrade convention, newly formed Yugoslavia, communists of Byzantine, Nikean republic and Hungary joins the International. Hungarian communist are however defeated by the Transylvanian and Czechoslovakian intervention before the Komintern’s troops manages to help them. Trotsky is determined that before the new International can work, the empire of Byzantine must be demolished in it’s all existence. Thus the main offensives are focused on the remains of the troops and areas still loyal to the empire. Ioan XV commits suicide in June 1919 when the Red army began to siege the imperial palace. In 30th of September the communist troops assaults the imperial palace and the new Empire, Mikael XVII offers the throne to Trotsky. Trotsky states that the Roman empire is no more to witch Mikael XVII replies the famous quote “No, the empire just took new clothes and new dynasty to rule it, the 2000 year old empire will never ends to reign.”

Shipbucket

Who is online